More Deck Colors

The small upper deck, 80 SF, is projected to need $1,400 worth of composite decking. The lower deck is about 120 SF. I'm looking at $3,500 in composite decking alone. What color is kind of important.

There are a lot of brands out there, and they each have different lines, but Trex Transcend and TimberTech AZEK stand out. They're about the same price, $5/LF (roughly $10/SF), and they have similar colors.

Dark woods, like Ipe
Medium woods, like walnut
Gray

Update: Composite deck market. I talked to a guy at North City Lumber who said it best: "Ranges from $3/LF to $6/LF." What I didn't realize is that some colors are more expensive--like Toyota charges more for white.

Composite deck is some sort of filler wrapped in an HDPE (plastic) shell. Some are wrapped 3 sides, some 4 sides. The cheaper lines have a scalloped (ribbed) bottom that makes them lighter, but hopefully just as strong. PVC (plastic) deck is better than composite in some ways.

The major brands have Good, Better, Best lines. The inexpensive end of the spectrum is a solid color with some embossed grain. In the middle, we get some variegated color, and at the high end, the embossing is more pronounced, with color streaks. Most have 25- or 30-year warranties, and some have 50-year. PVC decking often has a lifetime warranty.

Because Spiced Rum and Lava Rock are at the top of the Trex spectrum, the samples look better. $5.83/LF for them. I'm wondering, though, if a solid color, scalloped bottom might not work for me. I'm okay with it looking like composite, not wood.

To see samples at the site, see my blog post on the subject.

Trex Transcend

In the blog post, Spiced Rum is #3 and Lava Rock is #4.

TimberTech AZEK
I didn't realize that Azek has more colors than Trex. Arbor is one of several collections:

In the blog post, Brazilian Walnut is #7 and Morado is #5.

The other color question is whether the frame is a different color than the field. 

Deck Colors

So, I can't move forward without renting a truck to carry lumber home. If I'm going to rent a truck, I should buy all the long lumber and composite decking at once. Therefore, to move forward, I have to choose a composite deck color. See also Deck Style and More Deck Style.

For the railing design, I'm thinking about using relatively inexpensive pressure-treated "incised" 4x4s, joined at the top by matching 2x4s. Incised means they have teeth marks where the chemical soaked in. The noticeable thing about the railing is the 8 stainless steel cables. I'm thinking I could use a really dark stain on the 4x4s and 2x4s, so that they maintain a kind of rough, industrial feeling and let the shiny cables--well, shine.

Olympic Ebony Semi-Transparent Stain--just for the railing posts

The touchable railing cap on top of the posts and sub-rail could be something like cedar stained and given a thick polyurethane finish.

Azek Brazilian Walnut

If that railing works out, I still have to decide on a color. I like the idea of a frame around the edge, rather than expose cut ends of decking. That could be the same color as the decking, or something contrasting. I thought I'd use the same frame material on the stair nosings, so contrast might be nice.

With the house done over in gray with white trim, the deck should be dark wood, I think. Something like Trex Spiced Rum or TimberTech Azek Brazilian Walnut.

Huzzah! I found an example of what I'm talking about:

I like it! I could save on Trex fascia, as well--just stain the rim joist black.

Something like this, only with big,clunky BLACK 4x4s

Something like this, only with the posts stained black, and the deck less red

Spiced Rum (edge, I think). Illustrates the contrasting "frame" idea. 

Should I use composite for the touchable top rail? Zero maintenance.

Sunday night status

Girder placed! Once the existing girder at the glass door is leveled (it slopes to the east a little), I can replace the saved joists and cut and install the new joists. Then stringers and posts (the details haven't been worked out yet) and decking.

Nice and level. The existing joists have to be trimmed.

I removed the joists from Casey's deck that I certainly can't use. I still haven't prepared a new/existing framing plan for that deck. The experience of leveling this new girder leads me to discount the value of the existing girders, so maybe I just start fresh with the framing plan I already have.

Girder on the right is in about the right place, but it needs to be longer

Deck Plans

Here are the 1/2" scale framing plans that I've been working on.

The upper deck is pushing the cantilever a bit. Simpson to the rescue.

This is the blue sky lower deck (dashed line is existing concrete patio)

But, then I thought: Why rip everything out and set new piers, buy new $15/board lumber, level everything, and all the rest? Could I use the existing framing? I think maybe I can.

Existing girders, piers, and joists shown with "blue sky" plan dashed.

The "prow" was going to be another cantilever, but we can't do that with the joists running this way. Might just frame it as a gable end--turn a double pair of joists 90-degrees a few joists back, and use joist hangers.

Lumber Shopping

I want to build the two deck frames and think about Trex/Azek and railings later.

My immediate need is to build the second girder for the upper deck--that requires 10' 2x8s. Turns out 10' boards are $1.498/LF while 8' boards are $1.485/LF. 8' boards fit in the Prius.

We're talking 2x8 Hem/Fir #2 pressure treated for ground contact. When you cut a board like that, you need to treat the cut end with preservative, and I like Copper-Green Brown because it comes in aerosol form ($11.95). Regular Copper-Green (same price) gives a green tinge to the wood, brown does not.

I haven't decided about the stair stringers. Of the three options: metal, pre-cut, or 2x12s, I'm leaning toward pre-cut. Home Depot sells a 4-step (that's 5 risers) suitable for ground contact for $21.34. My problem is that I'd like 7-1/4" x 12" steps, but the precuts are usually something like 7" x 11" and the Home Depot 4-step seems to be 6-3/4" x 10". 10" means two Trex boards with no extra cutting.

I need a total of 8 stringers. Pre-cut (as described above) is $170.72. If I can get 2 stringers out of an 8' 2x12, four 2x12x8s would be $74.28. If I need 8 2x12s, it's $148.56. The first time I calculated this, pre-cut came out cheaper, but $74 vs $170 is worth the extra work on my part to make my own stringers. And I get the rise/run I want.

Wednesday's Progress

I'm working out a 1/2"-scale framing plan for the upper deck. I left some of the framing at the glass door in case I could just add on to it, and I think I'll be able to do that, sort of. The joists span between two girders, and the existing girder at the glass door is all set. The other girder, however, needs to be 10' long and closer to the house, so it has to go. That means I have to remove the joists so that I can remove the girder. With luck, I can reuse the joists, though, after I cut about 6" off each one.

I numbered the joists starting with 1 at BR2. Note the vault access panel.

I built the vault access panel, imitating Peggy's contractor's design--2x2 frame with corner braces and 1/4" hardware cloth on the back side. No need for hinges. I released a fogger in the vault and "sealed" the access panel with a garbage bag, but the directions say don't use it in a tiny space like a closet or it may explode. So, I let it go for a little while, then pulled it out and fogged the general area.

Showing off the new miter saw and band clamp. Drill and driver combo works great.

The sewage ejector is buried quite deep. The above ground pipe is the vent.

Posts are in approximately correct location for 10' girder. Stair stringers attach to girder.

The plan calls for Simpson connectors to anchor everything in place. Uplift on joists at the girder next to the house is an issue due to an aggressive cantilever--Simpson has hurricane ties (H1) that should work, along with a 9" twist strap (H2.5).

Roof drainage: Apparently, the downspout used to run into the black pipe in the photo. It goes deep, and I'm guessing it runs over toward Casey's door. They abandoned it when they built the deck, tossing it onto the concrete steps rather than dig it out. Then they installed the exact same black plastic pipe and ran it on the surface next to the concrete patio. It never drained properly, as I discovered when I disconnected it, lifted it, and had the sludge of hell wash out onto the concrete.

I recently installed just this kind of pipe in the front yard, so I have an alternative plan to just casting it aside--it cuts with a utility knife. Easily.

May 10 photo. It seems so long ago.

Railing suppliers

https://www.stairsupplies.com/

https://atlantisrail.com/

Update: https://www.affordablestairparts.com/products/stainless-steel-cable-railing-kit?variant=31783160643666 sells a simpler system with 1/8" cable. 9 20' lengths would be $433.08 including all the tensioning hardware (which I didn't even get into with Stair Supplies).

Stair Supplies .com

These guys will solve my problem, I think. Railings from Home Depot or Lowes don't look good to me, and clean designs don't seem possible with the limited range they carry.

5/32" stainless steel cable. $300 for 400'

Start with the cable. A 36" railing with a 2x cap and a 4x stiffener under the cap means we have a 31" gap to fill with cable. Less if we have a bottom rail, but I don't want that. For the 4" min. gap requirement, we could use 7 cables, but Fine Homebuilding and others say space them tighter because they flex under load. That would be 9 or 10 cables.

100' spool of cable is $75, and 400' is $300, so 75¢ a foot both ways. The upper deck has a J-shaped railing 16'-2' long (7' 4", 5' 10", 3'). That's 114' of cable at 7, 162' at 10.

The cable is 1x19 (meaning 19 strands). 316 marine grade, high corrosion resistant. You can buy lesser cable.

If I go with Stair Supplies posts (not 4x4s), I have to use their cable spacing (3.125" on center), and 10 cables for a 36" high railing. Posts are spaced maximum 4', and it says the cable can make up to a 45-degree turn, so I need a solution for two 90-degree corners.

They have a $59 Cable Rail Installation Kit. It has two top quality tools I probably need and a bunch of junk--allen wrenches, a post level, Torx driver bits--that I already have. It's a clever pitch: You pay $159 and they refund $100 if you return the two tools in 90 days. They have a video.

All things being equal, I like side mount posts. They maximize the deck area and hide the connection from above. We want the Side-mount, Flat-top, 2" square powder-coated aluminum post for $130. Colors are $10 or $20 more. Black Fluoropolymer is $140 per post. I'm not sure how they handle corners, but they make an outside corner post for $145/$155. I'm looking at 4 normal and 2 outside corners--$810 in black, $870 in black fluoropolymer just for the upper deck posts. They sell 5/16" x 6" GRK mounting screws for $2.15 each (in packs of 4).

Finally, the handrail. The aluminum posts are screwed into a wooden handrail from below. Their 6000 railing is sold in 10' sections. 1-5/8" x 2-3/4" red oak for $12.82/LF. The Upper Deck has 16' 2", so 2 boards at $128.19 each is $256.38. The red oak comes with no finish--they offer finishes for more $. Turns out they have N woods, M finishes, and X lengths. I could get a 10' and an 8' for less waste, for example. I'm not sure what "plowed" means in this context. Planed?

Or, I can match the posts with black powder-coat aluminum railing for $22.65/LF. Not sure how that turns corners, but I'll bet they offer an expensive solution.

So, minimum prices:
6 posts - $810
6x4 post screws - $51.60
162' feet of cable (2 @ 100') - $150
Red Oak handrail (18' @ $12.82) - $230.76
====
$1242.36 for 16' 2" of Upper Deck Railing, or $76.85 per foot.

I think I'd better think it out again.--Reviewing the Situation by Lionel Bart

So, how about those 4x4 posts? Dunn Lumber sells pressure treated 4x4x8 for $14.18. If I put two at each outside corner, I'd need 6 posts and two 2x4 intermediate cable supports. Three 4x4x8 and a little for the 2x4s is $45, rather than $810 for the posts.

If I use 2x4 stiffeners under the rail, I only need 9 cables, not 10. So, only 145' of cable, not 160'. Dunn Lumber sells 2x4 Ipe for $6.98/LF, but fulfills orders with random lengths.

That works out to:
6 posts + 2 intermediate 2x4s - $45, say $50
Special screws - allow $50
145' feet of cable (2 @ 100') - $150
Ipe handrail (18' @ $6.98) - $125.64
====
$375.64 or $23.24 per foot.

4x4s are looking mighty attractive. Money left over to buy the drill press I'll need for drilling the 100s of precision holes I'll need.