The A.11 plan continues to hold; it really seems to work, except perhaps at the entry.
Not sure about the green roof, but a generally sloping ceiling to the trees in the back makes sense for the Trees Room, and I want a high ceiling in the dining room (and ceiling height variety around the entry).
What I don't want is the garage hip roof coming around the corner, impacting the walk to the front door. So I sketched this:
Remember that the design criteria effectively says that the south elevation can go to hell. All that matters is north and maybe west. The flat portion is quite arbitrary, of course. The ridge is where it is now, but that doesn't have to be true--the flat portion could be skinnier or it could be more of a mansard.
Update 3/31/15: Here's revision with a lower flat roof on the garage and stepped flat roofs over the Trees Room. This includes removing overhangs from the flat roofs, extending the entry roof north, and glazing the entry door wall for an MCM inside-outside feel.
What a mess.
Monday, March 30, 2015
Saturday, March 28, 2015
Thursday, March 26, 2015
Green Stormwater Infrastructure
Turns out, Seattle DPD has a publication all about GSI, Managing Rainwater (Dec 2010), as well as a website. Another website offers helpful resources, and being RainWise. What we're talking about is a "green roof," and a "rain garden." Projects with 2000 SF or more of new or replaced impervious surface (roof and paving) must implement a GSI. More than 750 SF of new or replaced pavement need drainage review from the Side Sewer desk (the existing driveway is 1,089 SF to the street).
The RainWise site says that this property is not eligible for any RainWise rebate programs.
Rain gardens provide bioretention, designed to get water to soak into the ground. Designed soil mix and native plants work better than a lawn. They also talk about conveyance furrows, kind of a directed French drain. There is a WSU Rain Garden Handbook. Recommended plants for the rain garden are found at Green Factor. The RainWise guide actually says don't do rain gardens, cisterns or rock-filled trenches around steep slopes or slide areas.
Rain water harvesting of 200 to 1000 gallons calls for a cistern. Smaller than 200 gallons is just a rain barrel. Rain water is better for plants than potable (chlorinated) water, but greywater (diverted from the sewer) has more code requirements.
Seattle DPD likes green roofs a lot. Typically less than 4" of "soil-like growing medium." There are extensive and intensive green roofs. Extensive is 10-50 psf, intensive 80-120 psf.
Geotechnical engineer Keith Cross suggested that I read:
The RainWise site says that this property is not eligible for any RainWise rebate programs.
Rain gardens provide bioretention, designed to get water to soak into the ground. Designed soil mix and native plants work better than a lawn. They also talk about conveyance furrows, kind of a directed French drain. There is a WSU Rain Garden Handbook. Recommended plants for the rain garden are found at Green Factor. The RainWise guide actually says don't do rain gardens, cisterns or rock-filled trenches around steep slopes or slide areas.
Rain water harvesting of 200 to 1000 gallons calls for a cistern. Smaller than 200 gallons is just a rain barrel. Rain water is better for plants than potable (chlorinated) water, but greywater (diverted from the sewer) has more code requirements.
Seattle DPD likes green roofs a lot. Typically less than 4" of "soil-like growing medium." There are extensive and intensive green roofs. Extensive is 10-50 psf, intensive 80-120 psf.
Geotechnical engineer Keith Cross suggested that I read:
- City of Seattle MC - grading = ch 22.170
- City of Seattle MC - ECA = ch 25.09 Directors Rules 4-2015; 17-2011; 18-2011; 3-2007
- City of Seattle MC - stormwater = ch 22.800 Directors Rules 15-2012; 15-2009; 16-2009; 17-2009(*); 18-2009
Wednesday, March 25, 2015
How about a green roof?
Structural Insulated Panels have bending strength to spare; they make it possible to put a layer of soil on them and grow things on the roof. Such a roof adds insulation and improves stormwater runoff: it captures water for later evaporation and it filters the water that does run off. The soil actually protects the roofing membrane from UV radiation and physical damage.
One study says rainwater runoff is reduced by 75%. According to Wikipedia, "water is stored by the substrate and then taken up by the plants from where it is returned to the atmosphere through transpiration and evaporation. Green roofs not only retain rainwater, but also moderate the temperature of the water and act as natural filters for any of the water that happens to run off."
We're talking about 660 SF of green roof and 2,265 SF composition shingles.
As the project gets more real, it is important to force myself to continue to dream big and not get bogged down by practicalities. Also, I used to think that buyers would be attracted by an "architect-designed" house. Now, with the hydronic heating system and advanced stormwater diversion, I think the appeal shifts to being a cutting edge (the LEEDing edge, if you will), high-efficiency green house.
Another study says a green roof could increase the value of the house by 7%. Academic bullshit aside, I think it might be a win in the Seattle marketplace. As a practical matter, no one knows what it costs. "Yes, I bought the house for under $500,000, but then I installed...the Future!...and now I want $1 million. Any other questions?"
One study says rainwater runoff is reduced by 75%. According to Wikipedia, "water is stored by the substrate and then taken up by the plants from where it is returned to the atmosphere through transpiration and evaporation. Green roofs not only retain rainwater, but also moderate the temperature of the water and act as natural filters for any of the water that happens to run off."
We're talking about 660 SF of green roof and 2,265 SF composition shingles.
As the project gets more real, it is important to force myself to continue to dream big and not get bogged down by practicalities. Also, I used to think that buyers would be attracted by an "architect-designed" house. Now, with the hydronic heating system and advanced stormwater diversion, I think the appeal shifts to being a cutting edge (the LEEDing edge, if you will), high-efficiency green house.
Another study says a green roof could increase the value of the house by 7%. Academic bullshit aside, I think it might be a win in the Seattle marketplace. As a practical matter, no one knows what it costs. "Yes, I bought the house for under $500,000, but then I installed...the Future!...and now I want $1 million. Any other questions?"
Monday, March 23, 2015
Interior colors
I started doing this in Photoshop, but Benjamin Moore has an excellent online tool.
The basic concept is a whiter ceiling than we have now and a cool grey on the wall with gloss white trim. The existing 6-panel doors are fine, but not in white (it looks like primer). A dark charcoal grey for accent walls. I tried darker shades on the ceiling, but it makes the ceiling oppressive.
The basic concept is a whiter ceiling than we have now and a cool grey on the wall with gloss white trim. The existing 6-panel doors are fine, but not in white (it looks like primer). A dark charcoal grey for accent walls. I tried darker shades on the ceiling, but it makes the ceiling oppressive.
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| No mirror (no heating vent, either). |
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| Thinking of painting the windows black (this one is clear aluminum at the moment). |
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| Green or blue doors. Could be a darker shade (more of a Kelley green). Door hardware black and not a lever. |
Sunday, March 22, 2015
A.11.2 Trees Room
Just to see how it might feel, I put a hip roof on the Trees Room. It settles in nicely--like a matching throw pillow--and it makes the flat roofs just about disappear. We want a gable at the south end, however, to avoid rain runoff. This way, we just need a gutter at the sides (and some way to direct the east downspout to the front).
Then I thought I'd model an idea I'd had for the window wall--a naturalistic spacing designed to evoke a forest. I like it, but it reminds me of some too-clever 1960s church designs, and I worry that the room is too small for such a gesture. I don't let these concerns rule things out, of course.
The height of the Trees Room ceiling is based on the dining room roof (which, in turn, is based on hiding the existing hip). For this design, I gave up lofting the Trees Room ceiling high enough to accommodate stairs to a future master suite. It bugs me that it's almost high enough.
Then I thought I'd model an idea I'd had for the window wall--a naturalistic spacing designed to evoke a forest. I like it, but it reminds me of some too-clever 1960s church designs, and I worry that the room is too small for such a gesture. I don't let these concerns rule things out, of course.
The height of the Trees Room ceiling is based on the dining room roof (which, in turn, is based on hiding the existing hip). For this design, I gave up lofting the Trees Room ceiling high enough to accommodate stairs to a future master suite. It bugs me that it's almost high enough.
Saturday, March 21, 2015
Kitchen Cabinets
I selected a bunch of ready-to-assemble cabinets from CSHardware.com, just to get a feeling for the cost. I choose a simple panel white painted door style, Wood Trends (Hampton), and listed 16 boxes, including the sink front, two tall pantry units, an over-the-refrigerator design and upper cabinets. The total, including an accurate shipping bid and Seattle tax, came to $7,764.33. I also need about 56 SF of quartz countertop which costs, at $70/SF, $3,920. I suspect these numbers are low, unfortunately.
I'm thinking that something like a vertical bamboo might make a good design theme for the house--vertical striations of random width and spacing mimic the way a grove of tall trees is seen from a given spot.
![]() |
| InnerMost Cabinets - St. Lucia style in bamboo |
![]() |
| Ikea BROKHULT |
- InnerMost (by Elkay), sold at Home Depot. Full-extension drawers, pull-out corner solution, Two-tier silverware drawer. Soft-close.
- Ikea SEKTION has drawers instead of doors in base cabinets. BROKHULT doors are flush, but the grain runs horizontally.
- Thomasville. Blythe Maple Clove is a simple panel with vertical wood grain.
- KC Fine Cabinetry - Bothell
- Kitchen Classics by Lowe's doesn't seem to have a flush panel door option.
- KraftMaid is sold at Lowe's. Malibu Maple is a flush panel. Bryant is available in quartersawn cherry, maple, or oak.
- Shenandoah - Sydney is their flush panel (Maple Wheat, Cherry Spice). They have a Utility cabinet with a pantry swing-out kit.
- Diamond calls their flush panel Heyword, but it doesn't look much like bamboo. White and black are options.
- Schuler calls Soho a "mid-century marvel." Cherry and maple.
The countertop might be something like Caesarstone "Fresh Concrete."
Update 3/26/15: A detailed plan using Ikea SEKTION cabinets with BJORKET (Light wood, shaker) doors worked out to less than $6,000. This allows for extras like lighted drawers, and maybe fancier doors--more expensive styles like the gloss white RINGHULT, which is nearly 4.5x the BJORKET doors. BROKHULT is 1.7x the cost of BJORKET.
Update 3/26/15: A detailed plan using Ikea SEKTION cabinets with BJORKET (Light wood, shaker) doors worked out to less than $6,000. This allows for extras like lighted drawers, and maybe fancier doors--more expensive styles like the gloss white RINGHULT, which is nearly 4.5x the BJORKET doors. BROKHULT is 1.7x the cost of BJORKET.The Roof is the Hardest Part
Not really, but it's given me some trouble.
I'm still not concentrating on the Trees Room itself. It should slope like this, I think--the rain water should go to the street, not the park, and the eye should move up to the tree tops beyond. It doesn't have to be this steep, but this design preserves head height for getting into the future master suite.
This model includes gutters and downspouts, because I realize that that's important. (We want to carry runoff to the street.) The breakthrough came when I saw that the dining room roof 1) had to be fairly high for the existing hip roof not to be compromised and 2) was independent of the dining room ceiling. That is, we can drop a ceiling to whatever height we want, or leave it dramatically high.
I'm still not concentrating on the Trees Room itself. It should slope like this, I think--the rain water should go to the street, not the park, and the eye should move up to the tree tops beyond. It doesn't have to be this steep, but this design preserves head height for getting into the future master suite.
This model includes gutters and downspouts, because I realize that that's important. (We want to carry runoff to the street.) The breakthrough came when I saw that the dining room roof 1) had to be fairly high for the existing hip roof not to be compromised and 2) was independent of the dining room ceiling. That is, we can drop a ceiling to whatever height we want, or leave it dramatically high.
Metal Roof?
Friday, March 20, 2015
Roof Runoff
In advance of any bargaining session with the city regarding environmental impact, I wanted to calculate our existing gutter system.
Turns out the gutters direct only 22.2% of the roof rainwater to the front yard, 77.8% goes to the rear. At 38 inches of rainfall per year, that works out to 40,880 gallons of roof rainwater per year spread over the back yard, some of which will make it into Carkeek Park.
I hope I can show that the modified house will send more than 50% of the roof rainwater to the street, saving Carkeek measurably.
Turns out the gutters direct only 22.2% of the roof rainwater to the front yard, 77.8% goes to the rear. At 38 inches of rainfall per year, that works out to 40,880 gallons of roof rainwater per year spread over the back yard, some of which will make it into Carkeek Park.
I hope I can show that the modified house will send more than 50% of the roof rainwater to the street, saving Carkeek measurably.
Thursday, March 19, 2015
City Won't Waive ECA Requirements
Bummer. The City of Seattle Dept of Planning and Development wants a geotechnical report before the project can proceed.
So, as the plans firm up, I'll need to hire a geotechnical engineer, such as J. Keith Cross. Last Labor Day, I emailed Dale Marcum that I had found two:
Robinson Noble
Woodinville
www.robinson-noble.com
J. Keith Cross, PE
PO Box 1986
Bellevue, WA
http://keithcrossgeotechnical.com
Dale said Robinson-Noble seemed to specialize in hydro. So I'm back to the list I used then, the ASCE List of Geotechnical Firms. Mr. Cross already has $800 of my money, and he consulted on 814 NW 118th, across the street. However, he told me a report would be $10,000, more if there were issues.
These folks might be interesting: They worked on the failed rockery here back in 2009 or so.
Liu and Associates
19213 Kenlake Pl. NE
Seattle, WA 98155 [No, it's Kenmore 98028, up by Lake Forest Park]
425-483-9134
Creative Engineering Options of Redmond: 425-883-6889 (No web site)
Geotech Consultants, Inc. of Bellevue.
ECA review is required. Based on a review of the submitted information, along with the City GIS system, DPD concludes that the proposed work is on a property that is mapped as ECA Known Landslide, ECA Steep Slope, and ECA Potential Landslide due to geologic conditions. Consequently, the request to exempt the project from ECA review is denied and a geotechnical engineering report is required for review. An ECA Steep Slope Area Variance, or an Exception, is not required to develop this project because the proposed work is outside of the ECA Steep Slope and its buffer. The ECA General, and Landslide-Hazard Development Standards and criteria still apply.As I read their note, they want a report that addresses the landslide hazard, and any other environmental impact, but they are skipping the Steep Slope aspect because the survey persuaded them that we're outside the buffer. That was based on a 1/16th scale site plan I did that showed the Trees Room extending farther south that we've actually considered. Now we can consider moving south, so that's something.
So, as the plans firm up, I'll need to hire a geotechnical engineer, such as J. Keith Cross. Last Labor Day, I emailed Dale Marcum that I had found two:
Robinson Noble
Woodinville
www.robinson-noble.com
J. Keith Cross, PE
PO Box 1986
Bellevue, WA
http://keithcrossgeotechnical.com
Dale said Robinson-Noble seemed to specialize in hydro. So I'm back to the list I used then, the ASCE List of Geotechnical Firms. Mr. Cross already has $800 of my money, and he consulted on 814 NW 118th, across the street. However, he told me a report would be $10,000, more if there were issues.
Liu and Associates
19213 Kenlake Pl. NE
Seattle, WA 98155 [No, it's Kenmore 98028, up by Lake Forest Park]
425-483-9134
Others that caught my eye include:
Creative Engineering Options of Redmond: 425-883-6889 (No web site)
Geotech Consultants, Inc. of Bellevue.
Zipper Geo out of Lynnwood. John Zipper: jzipper@zippergeo.com
Tuesday, March 17, 2015
Thermal and Moisture Protection Uber Alles
As I begin focusing on specific roof and connection details--you know, the Dave Ott design method--I'm coming to realize that insulation may dictate some decisions. Some buildings use deep I-beam joists only to accommodate the thick blanket of insulation.
Seattle is in US Dept of Energy Zone 4 (California is all Zone 3), where the recommended R-values are included here:
The target values reflect the observation that this house is sheltered from temperature extremes. Heat loss governs, which places emphasis on the roof, less on the walls or floor. The target of R-49 comes from the Clean Crawls bidder who casually mentioned that goal as typical in this area.
Fiberglass batts are cheapest and bulkiest. They yield about R-3 per inch. So, to achieve R-49, we need a 17" thick blanket above the ceiling.
EPS polystyrene foam board, 2" thick, is $0.68/SF in 4x8 sheets from Home Depot. That gives R-7.7, which can augment batts. No one seems to pile on more than 2" of foam board. They have R-max Thermasheath (PolyIso), R-13, for $1/SF.
Closed-cell spray foam is considered best, because it also seals against air flow, but it is the most expensive. Corey Binford recommends "poor man's spray foam"--you fill each void with a 2" foam board, then seal around it with Great Stuff spray foam. He uses Dow Tuff-R, which gets R-12 from a 2" foam board. (Note that that still doesn't achieve the target R-13.)
Low-slope Roofs
One problem I notice right away is that thick insulation kills the architectural lines of a simple flat roof. MCM roofs with T&G decking on beams are replaced by architecture wearing adult diapers.
Roofs that have no attics should not be ventilated to the outside, but must be sealed against airflow through the ceiling. If the roof is cold, moisture in the warm air from the living space will condense in the plenum, rotting wood and breeding mold. They recommend track lights instead of cans, special drywall paint, and careful attention to sealing the wall-to-ceiling joint.
Closed-cell spray foam works best in this situation, but it is more expensive. It can achieve R-7 per inch, but we still need that R-12, 2" foam board and 3.7" of spray foam (or 5.5" of spray foam) to get R-38. Because it is so expensive, hybrid methods have been developed. 1" of closed cell spray is used to seal against airflow, then the voids are filled with cheaper open-cell spray foam or fiberglas batts (the latter is called "flash and batt"). It's all about the airflow, but 1" of spray is R-7, so you need 9"-11" of something else--that's a thick roof. Throw money at the problem, and you still need 5.5" of insulation--the 2x6s need to be 2x8s.
The obvious answer is Structural Insulated Panels, at least for the roofs. This is a sandwich of OSB on each side of an expanded polystyrene (EPS) core. SIPs are said to be 10% more expensive than stick framing, but, like engineered trusses, they are lighter and thinner for the same strength and insulating value. One local outfit is Premier SIPs. They have a video that shows a Trees Room-like setup with a center ridge beam. They taper the top of the beam, rest panels on either side, then fill in the "V" with foam..
Existing Attics
The main house has about 5" of rock wool insulation between the 2x6 ceiling joists. There is a fair amount of ventilation toward the peak, but none in the soffits. For R-49, we want a pile of about 16" of fiberglass--11" above the top of the ceiling joists. That thickness will taper at the edges--there will be a 36" border with less than 16".
The issue with the attics is ventilation. We need 1 SF of ventilation for every 300 SF of attic.
For the main house (1230 SF attic), we need 4.1 SF (590 SQ IN) of vents--divided between the soffit and the peak. The rafters are 2x4 @ 24", so we can imagine 2" x 22" soffit vents. We need (7) of these on the north, east, and south (west is the Trees Room). Then we need 295 SQ IN near the peak. Perhaps we leave the gable vent on the south; perhaps we add a 14" turbine.
Over the garage (658 SF including garage, 253 SF without it), we need 316 SQ IN of vents--(4) 2x22 soffit vents and 158 SQ IN near the peak.
Walls
Existing walls have 2" of balsam wool insulation, about an R-6. We could blow in cellulose for a dense pack R-12 that also helps fire resistance, but that's not cheap.
New walls can use fiberglass batts: R-13 for 2x4, R-19 for 2x6. Or, we can use the poor man's foam board and Great Stuff. In the 2x6 walls, we can add R-13 fiberglass batts and achieve R-25.
Wood Floors
Assuming that we use hydronic Pex tubing under the floor sheathing, with a metal heat reflector, we'll want to fill the 2x8 space with batts--we can achieve R-26.
Concrete Slab
Put foam board between the ground and the new slab; put foam board around the perimeter of the slab, protected with cement board. Consider doing this around the existing basement, as well.
Update 3/26/15: SIPs might be too expensive (you don't see them much). Instead, they make shallow, flat trusses, like this:
Seattle is in US Dept of Energy Zone 4 (California is all Zone 3), where the recommended R-values are included here:
| Area | DoE recommendation | Target | Notes |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2 x 4 Walls | R-13 to R-15 | R-13 | |
| 2 x 6 Walls | R-19 to R-21 | R-19 | |
| Attic | R-38 to R-60 | R-49 | |
| Low-slope Roofs | R-30 to R-38 | R-38 | |
| Wood Floors | R-25 to R-30 | R-25 |
The target values reflect the observation that this house is sheltered from temperature extremes. Heat loss governs, which places emphasis on the roof, less on the walls or floor. The target of R-49 comes from the Clean Crawls bidder who casually mentioned that goal as typical in this area.
| Helpful label: "4R per 1 inch" |
Fiberglass batts are cheapest and bulkiest. They yield about R-3 per inch. So, to achieve R-49, we need a 17" thick blanket above the ceiling.
EPS polystyrene foam board, 2" thick, is $0.68/SF in 4x8 sheets from Home Depot. That gives R-7.7, which can augment batts. No one seems to pile on more than 2" of foam board. They have R-max Thermasheath (PolyIso), R-13, for $1/SF.
Closed-cell spray foam is considered best, because it also seals against air flow, but it is the most expensive. Corey Binford recommends "poor man's spray foam"--you fill each void with a 2" foam board, then seal around it with Great Stuff spray foam. He uses Dow Tuff-R, which gets R-12 from a 2" foam board. (Note that that still doesn't achieve the target R-13.)
Low-slope Roofs
One problem I notice right away is that thick insulation kills the architectural lines of a simple flat roof. MCM roofs with T&G decking on beams are replaced by architecture wearing adult diapers.
Roofs that have no attics should not be ventilated to the outside, but must be sealed against airflow through the ceiling. If the roof is cold, moisture in the warm air from the living space will condense in the plenum, rotting wood and breeding mold. They recommend track lights instead of cans, special drywall paint, and careful attention to sealing the wall-to-ceiling joint.
Closed-cell spray foam works best in this situation, but it is more expensive. It can achieve R-7 per inch, but we still need that R-12, 2" foam board and 3.7" of spray foam (or 5.5" of spray foam) to get R-38. Because it is so expensive, hybrid methods have been developed. 1" of closed cell spray is used to seal against airflow, then the voids are filled with cheaper open-cell spray foam or fiberglas batts (the latter is called "flash and batt"). It's all about the airflow, but 1" of spray is R-7, so you need 9"-11" of something else--that's a thick roof. Throw money at the problem, and you still need 5.5" of insulation--the 2x6s need to be 2x8s.
| SIP project in Park City, UT |
Existing Attics
The main house has about 5" of rock wool insulation between the 2x6 ceiling joists. There is a fair amount of ventilation toward the peak, but none in the soffits. For R-49, we want a pile of about 16" of fiberglass--11" above the top of the ceiling joists. That thickness will taper at the edges--there will be a 36" border with less than 16".
The issue with the attics is ventilation. We need 1 SF of ventilation for every 300 SF of attic.
For the main house (1230 SF attic), we need 4.1 SF (590 SQ IN) of vents--divided between the soffit and the peak. The rafters are 2x4 @ 24", so we can imagine 2" x 22" soffit vents. We need (7) of these on the north, east, and south (west is the Trees Room). Then we need 295 SQ IN near the peak. Perhaps we leave the gable vent on the south; perhaps we add a 14" turbine.
Over the garage (658 SF including garage, 253 SF without it), we need 316 SQ IN of vents--(4) 2x22 soffit vents and 158 SQ IN near the peak.
Walls
Existing walls have 2" of balsam wool insulation, about an R-6. We could blow in cellulose for a dense pack R-12 that also helps fire resistance, but that's not cheap.
New walls can use fiberglass batts: R-13 for 2x4, R-19 for 2x6. Or, we can use the poor man's foam board and Great Stuff. In the 2x6 walls, we can add R-13 fiberglass batts and achieve R-25.
Wood Floors
Assuming that we use hydronic Pex tubing under the floor sheathing, with a metal heat reflector, we'll want to fill the 2x8 space with batts--we can achieve R-26.
Concrete Slab
Put foam board between the ground and the new slab; put foam board around the perimeter of the slab, protected with cement board. Consider doing this around the existing basement, as well.
Update 3/26/15: SIPs might be too expensive (you don't see them much). Instead, they make shallow, flat trusses, like this:
| It helps to spy on local construction projects |
Monday, March 16, 2015
Comp sells in record time
The house across the ravine, 822 NW 116th, was on the market for $640,000. It had one open house and sold that week for $709,000. That's some good news right there.
Actually, it was listed February 3 and sold February 23, but that's still mighty fast. It was built in 1951, 3 BR/2.75 Ba, and the kitchen hasn't been updated. It's on the largest lot on the block, 17,860 SF (Trees House is 10,665). It's 2,360 SF, so it sold for $300/SF. It has a two car attached carport.
Actually, it was listed February 3 and sold February 23, but that's still mighty fast. It was built in 1951, 3 BR/2.75 Ba, and the kitchen hasn't been updated. It's on the largest lot on the block, 17,860 SF (Trees House is 10,665). It's 2,360 SF, so it sold for $300/SF. It has a two car attached carport.
Friday, March 13, 2015
A.11 in 3-D
Thursday, March 12, 2015
A.11 arrives with a custom grid
Here's the latest. Entry is rather undefined (like the missing front doors on Bill May's drawing of Eagle's Nest.
The range is backed by a stone feature wall. The master suite/MIL unit gets a full-on mini-kitchen, and the spiral stair is now secret--hidden behind a hinged bookcase.
The range is backed by a stone feature wall. The master suite/MIL unit gets a full-on mini-kitchen, and the spiral stair is now secret--hidden behind a hinged bookcase.
Clean Crawls
Met with Gavin Spesock of Clean Crawls this morning. For $1.10 a square foot, his company will clean out the attic, removing all the old rock wool insulation, rat droppings, cobwebs and anything else that shouldn't be there. That's 1362 x 1.10 = $1500. (Actual bid $1,639.22 with tax.)
He said the rock wool is maybe R-19, but the current standard is R-49. You can pile new insulation on the old--"it just depends on your comfort level." He also recommends soffit vents--there are none now. I told him the gap seemed too small; he disagreed, after looking. He says the gap we have is typical and that the square inches add up. The alternative is to punch through the roof with vents similar to what they've already installed--the existing roof jacks are up high; we need to install some low, or figure out soffit vents.
In the basement, there's not much they can do if I'm switching out the heating system. They would replace the existing damaged vapor barrier (clear) with 6 mil black polyethylene (the current standard). There is a fair amount of stuff still in the crawl space--an old single panel door, and possibly a stack of shutters--and unless I want them to haul it off, I'd have to deal with it myself.
We agreed that the first thing is clean the attic, then have them back to assess the situation once we know what we're doing in more detail.
He also mentioned that we are not eligible for a rebate on wall insulation because it's not currently an empty cavity. If we remove all insulation in the attic, then install a new heating system, he can get a rebate on the new attic insulation. The rebates come from Puget Sound Energy, the gas company.
In the basement, there's not much they can do if I'm switching out the heating system. They would replace the existing damaged vapor barrier (clear) with 6 mil black polyethylene (the current standard). There is a fair amount of stuff still in the crawl space--an old single panel door, and possibly a stack of shutters--and unless I want them to haul it off, I'd have to deal with it myself.
We agreed that the first thing is clean the attic, then have them back to assess the situation once we know what we're doing in more detail.
He also mentioned that we are not eligible for a rebate on wall insulation because it's not currently an empty cavity. If we remove all insulation in the attic, then install a new heating system, he can get a rebate on the new attic insulation. The rebates come from Puget Sound Energy, the gas company.
Wednesday, March 11, 2015
Scheme A.10.2
I wondered why I was reluctant to proceed with A.10.1, and I finally decided that the reason is that it's not working, particularly the kitchen. Mostly, it works, but the entry / dining table / kitchen is a fail.
The concept is fine: The entry door opens onto an "open plan" living space which has furniture-defined zones. The ceiling suddenly lofts up in the Trees Room, and we have to respect that the ceiling change relates to these zones--the current plan ignores this.
The sunken Trees Room is working (new floor height 261.2, not 260.6), and we can deal with the window wall as a separate issue. Does it angle, is it a curtain wall, what part is operable, etc.
But, as the kitchen design guidelines show, the kitchen as drawn is 160 SF, which is close, but the flow is an "S" which eats up the space, which wasn't adequate to begin with. I still maintain that the door might be a nice feature, but it's really not required so we should come up with a design that actually meets the requirements.
The spiral stair makes the dining table awkward as laid out. It's a hole in the floor surrounded by railings. My concept was to make the wall behind it an accent wall--stone or something, then uplight it from below the floor. But maybe an enclosed, "secret" staircase would be better.
For the record, here's A.10.2 as we proceed on to A.11.
The concept is fine: The entry door opens onto an "open plan" living space which has furniture-defined zones. The ceiling suddenly lofts up in the Trees Room, and we have to respect that the ceiling change relates to these zones--the current plan ignores this.
The sunken Trees Room is working (new floor height 261.2, not 260.6), and we can deal with the window wall as a separate issue. Does it angle, is it a curtain wall, what part is operable, etc.
But, as the kitchen design guidelines show, the kitchen as drawn is 160 SF, which is close, but the flow is an "S" which eats up the space, which wasn't adequate to begin with. I still maintain that the door might be a nice feature, but it's really not required so we should come up with a design that actually meets the requirements.
The spiral stair makes the dining table awkward as laid out. It's a hole in the floor surrounded by railings. My concept was to make the wall behind it an accent wall--stone or something, then uplight it from below the floor. But maybe an enclosed, "secret" staircase would be better.
For the record, here's A.10.2 as we proceed on to A.11.
Kitchen Design Guidelines
The A.10 kitchen still isn't working. Need to establish requirements for the kitchen. It has to be impressive, or buyers will notice the small bathrooms and lack of overall SF.
Update 3/12/15: A key measurement is the LF of counter, measured at the front edge--that is, ignoring any 4 SF corners. The magic number (from B.5) is 32 LF of edge (including Sink, Range, Entertainment, and microwave/coffee--all you add is the refrigerator and pantry). Existing is 18 LF; A.10.1 is 23 LF. That's why A.10.1 seems too small.
Based on the "ideal" layout in scheme B.5:
Overall
For comparison, the existing kitchen is 108 SF, with 40 SF of counter, 7 LF of upper cabinets.
Update 3/12/15: A key measurement is the LF of counter, measured at the front edge--that is, ignoring any 4 SF corners. The magic number (from B.5) is 32 LF of edge (including Sink, Range, Entertainment, and microwave/coffee--all you add is the refrigerator and pantry). Existing is 18 LF; A.10.1 is 23 LF. That's why A.10.1 seems too small.
Based on the "ideal" layout in scheme B.5:
Overall
- Sink, range at core; food storage toward periphery
- Entertainment counter/cabinets with bar sink at periphery
- 48 SF counter not counting Entertainment (55 SF including sink and range. 22 SF sink, 16 SF range means 17 SF, 8.5 LF, counter over min. sink + range)
- Easy flow around Entertainment, Refrigerator--no cross traffic through Sink, Range area
- 170 SF total seems large. 8.5' x 20' seems long and narrow, but 13' x 13' would be too spread out.
- 3' base cabinet for sink
- Dishwasher adjacent
- 6' to 8' (total) base cabinets on each side of sink, includes 2' for trash/recycling. 11' to 13' including sink and dishwasher
- Min. 16 SF (total) counter on each side of sink (22 SF including sink)
- Window at the sink, no uppers
- 6' to 12' (total) upper cabinets for dishes, bowls, glassware, mugs on each side of sink (ideally, some uppers are near Entertainment)
- 3' range with hood (2'6" min.)--prefer wall, not island
- 5' (total) base cabinets on each side of range. 10 SF counter (16 SF including range)
- 2'6" to 5' upper cabinets on each side of range. Wall space good for hanging things--pots, pans, long-handled utensils, spice racks.
Food Storage Group
- 3' refrigerator. Space is 3' deep (depending on exact model). Cabinet walls on each side, does not need studs and drywall. Keep sides of refrigerator away from walls--allow >90° door swings.
- Pantry near refrigerator. Min. 2' x 3' 6" room with a door (3' x 4' 6" works, too)--7 to 13.5 SF. Works as broom closet as well--pet food, mop and pail, etc. Operable window a plus. Alt: (2) 15" rollout two-sided pantry units (2' 6" LF tall cabinets).
- Counter for groceries or gathering ingredients within 4' or so--can be Entertainment or other counter.
- Microwave on shelf @4' 4" from floor. 2 LF Coffee station next to it
Entertainment
- 5' to 6' peninsula or island with bar sink for non-chefs near refrigerator, microwave, glasses and plates
- 5' to 6' base cabinet (includes sink and possible 2' under-counter refrigerator)
- 15 to 18 SF counter--cantilever for counter-height stools
- Upper cabinets not required, assuming uppers by sink (glassware) are nearby
For comparison, the existing kitchen is 108 SF, with 40 SF of counter, 7 LF of upper cabinets.
Monday, March 9, 2015
Appliances
Update: 3/10/15: I ran my "findings" past Chad Miller at Seattle Home Appliance. I asked if an induction range would be more impressive than a gas one. In some situations, he said--a lot of customers come in wanting induction--but, in general, no. Serious chefs want gas. (By the way, the NXR DRGB3601 has a blue porcelain finish inside the oven and all six burners are 1500 BTU.)
As for refrigerators, french doors are the trend. I noticed that there are many more french door models at Lowe's and Home Depot than side-by-sides. Through the door icemakers in some models take a large amount of shelf space, an even bigger problem in side-by-sides. In French door designs, Samsung has an icemaker that only impacts the top shelf. LG hangs the whole thing on the door. GE brings up the rear in this regard.
So, a French door model is back on the table. The Samsung RF323TEDBSR is at the high price end ($3400), or the LG LFX25973ST ($2350). I really like the flex drawer and door-in-door models, such as the $4000 LG LMXS30776S, which has it all. It's 36" x 37.75" x 70 1/4".
Tentative appliance choices.
Dishwasher
KitchenAid Architect Series II, KDTM354DSS. I want the third, upper shelf. Ultra-fine filter.
Update: They have a million models. The one we want has the "third-level utensil rack" KDTE204DSS. By the way, for a couple hundred more, the KDTM384ESS has a view window and lighted interior (but no third level).
Range
NXR makes Wolf-like ranges for less than half the Wolf price. Viking is also good. A 36" range looks more impressive than a 30".
NXR DRGB3601 is about $3000. (Wolf GR366 is $6,345.)
Refrigerator
These side-by-side models meet the specs:
The LG model is sexy. 36 x 36 x 70 1/4". Glass shelves, 1 slide-out; wire freezer shelves; 3 door bins; 2 crispers. "LoDecibel" quiet operation. Hidden hinges. LED lights in refrigerator and freezer.
Features
Side by side or French door over freezer? Side-by-side makes sense because it puts the through-the-door ice dispenser in the freezer.
24-30" deep (counter-depth) or 33-36" deep? I don't think counter-depth is good, because you lose either capacity or insulation. 36" wide.
I'd like an external temperature display, ice and water dispenser. Digital temperature control.
22-26 cu. ft.
Energy Star rated, ADA compliant.
"Gallon Door Storage" or similar double-door feature is nice.
LED lighting, spill-safe shelves, filtered water nice.
Kitchen Sink
Single bowl stainless steel sink, such as Elkay Crosstown ECTRU30179RDBG ($728). 31.5" W x 18.5" D x 9" H. Sound dampening sides and bottom.
Might want to consider "apron front" stainless steel as well.
As for refrigerators, french doors are the trend. I noticed that there are many more french door models at Lowe's and Home Depot than side-by-sides. Through the door icemakers in some models take a large amount of shelf space, an even bigger problem in side-by-sides. In French door designs, Samsung has an icemaker that only impacts the top shelf. LG hangs the whole thing on the door. GE brings up the rear in this regard.
So, a French door model is back on the table. The Samsung RF323TEDBSR is at the high price end ($3400), or the LG LFX25973ST ($2350). I really like the flex drawer and door-in-door models, such as the $4000 LG LMXS30776S, which has it all. It's 36" x 37.75" x 70 1/4".
Tentative appliance choices.
Dishwasher
KitchenAid Architect Series II, KDTM354DSS. I want the third, upper shelf. Ultra-fine filter.
Update: They have a million models. The one we want has the "third-level utensil rack" KDTE204DSS. By the way, for a couple hundred more, the KDTM384ESS has a view window and lighted interior (but no third level).
Range
| NXR 36" gas range |
NXR DRGB3601 is about $3000. (Wolf GR366 is $6,345.)
Refrigerator
These side-by-side models meet the specs:
- GE Profile PSE25KSESS - Energy Star and ADA compliant, but clunky display and no digital temp control.
- LG LSC263??6S - Door-in-door. (??=36, 38, 46) Not ADA. $1800, $1900, $2100.
- Maytag MSC21C6MDM - No digital temp control. Not ADA. $1615
- Samsung RH22H9010SR - Only 21.5 cu ft. Not ADA. $3000
- Samsung RH25H5111 - 24.5 cu ft. Not ADA $1700
- Samsung RH29H8000SR - 28.5 cu ft. No Gallon door storage. Not ADA $2500
- Whirlpool WRS950SIA - 29.7 cu ft. Not ADA. $1700.
The LG model is sexy. 36 x 36 x 70 1/4". Glass shelves, 1 slide-out; wire freezer shelves; 3 door bins; 2 crispers. "LoDecibel" quiet operation. Hidden hinges. LED lights in refrigerator and freezer.
| LG LSXS26386S $1900 |
Features
Side by side or French door over freezer? Side-by-side makes sense because it puts the through-the-door ice dispenser in the freezer.
24-30" deep (counter-depth) or 33-36" deep? I don't think counter-depth is good, because you lose either capacity or insulation. 36" wide.
I'd like an external temperature display, ice and water dispenser. Digital temperature control.
22-26 cu. ft.
Energy Star rated, ADA compliant.
"Gallon Door Storage" or similar double-door feature is nice.
LED lighting, spill-safe shelves, filtered water nice.
Kitchen Sink
Single bowl stainless steel sink, such as Elkay Crosstown ECTRU30179RDBG ($728). 31.5" W x 18.5" D x 9" H. Sound dampening sides and bottom.
Might want to consider "apron front" stainless steel as well.
The Trees of Trees House
| Pseudotsuga Menziesii (Douglas Fir) |
Pseudotsuga Menziesii (Douglas Fir) - The big tree where the driveway crosses the property line curves out of the ground, and 80' feet up the trunk forks into two vertical trunks. The bark is more gray than the brown bark on other firs on the property. The cones are as expected: 2.5"-3" We have (7) firs.
| Thuja plicata (Western Red Cedar) |
Trachycarpus Fortunei (Chinese Fan Palm) Quoting Jacobson: "Out of thousands of species, only this palm has been grown extensively here...A palm seen in Seattle is almost certain to be this one."
| Trachycarpus Fortunei (Chinese Fan Palm) |
Sunday, March 8, 2015
A.10 Roof Plan
Trees Room roof avoids the static barn feeling with the angled walls and sloping ceiling. Skylights might be a problem for media room--we'll see what we see in Sketchup. Note the sun tunnel at the laundry room and a 4x4 skylight at the land-locked bathroom.
I have a bid coming for an 11' x 14' hip skylight, but I'd be surprised if it was less than $5,000 (the cost of an aluminum and glass garage door). Four 2x4 Velux skylights cost about $1,200 so...yeah.
Update: Bid received 3/9/15 for $20,846.
The low-angle shed might not work, but I'd like to see it in Sketchup. I'm mindful that shed roofs can be off-putting . Also, this plan puts a structural point load right over the dining table. It's no problem to catch the load with a moderate-sized beam, but I'm concerned that a visitor will notice this on an unconscious level and it will make the house feel unbalanced or uncomfortable.
Saturday, March 7, 2015
The Plan Evolves
Update: Peggy's Notes
Response re: kitchen door: A door to the outside means a full panel of glass for light and airiness. It means fresh basil and cilantro are just steps away. It means mega-ventilation if something starts smoking, and it could mean easy composting.
Update: 3/8/15: Plan A.10.1 steals some of the porch and moves the dining table to the middle of the space to create a proper kitchen.
The latest plan gives us 4 bedrooms, 2.75 baths in about 500 square feet of additional space. The spiral stair to the wine cellar returns, adding that 260 square feet to the total 2,136. The kitchen, bathrooms, and closets are modest, but the Trees Room is more dramatic than before, the spiral stair should be unique and memorable, and we have a MIL and Airbnb with dedicated access.
Moving the steps down to the Trees Room away from the wall allows us to put stairs up to a future Master Suite along that wall. Maybe we include the stairs in this phase with a door to a roof deck.
The plan includes a generous front porch. As with earlier schemes, the idea is plant the notion of spaciousness in buyer's minds as they enter the house for the first time. Also, just to see how it feels, the laundry is open to the hall--the laundry sink counts as a 1/4 bath, by the way. For the same reason, the sink is outside BR3's en suite.
Response re: kitchen door: A door to the outside means a full panel of glass for light and airiness. It means fresh basil and cilantro are just steps away. It means mega-ventilation if something starts smoking, and it could mean easy composting.
Update: 3/8/15: Plan A.10.1 steals some of the porch and moves the dining table to the middle of the space to create a proper kitchen.
| Update: A.10.1 with changes to the entry and kitchen |
The latest plan gives us 4 bedrooms, 2.75 baths in about 500 square feet of additional space. The spiral stair to the wine cellar returns, adding that 260 square feet to the total 2,136. The kitchen, bathrooms, and closets are modest, but the Trees Room is more dramatic than before, the spiral stair should be unique and memorable, and we have a MIL and Airbnb with dedicated access.
The plan includes a generous front porch. As with earlier schemes, the idea is plant the notion of spaciousness in buyer's minds as they enter the house for the first time. Also, just to see how it feels, the laundry is open to the hall--the laundry sink counts as a 1/4 bath, by the way. For the same reason, the sink is outside BR3's en suite.
Friday, March 6, 2015
The Unused Front Door vs. the Intimacy Gradient
It's dumb to include a front door in the traditional place in a house if everyone is going to use the informal way in. The kitchen door, the sliding glass door on the family room...if they are next to where visitors walk up or park their cars, no one is going to hike around to the quiet part of the house to knock on the "real" front door.
The problem is that this "real world" thinking leads to the feeling that the visitor's entry into the house wasn't designed. It works, and most people wouldn't question it, but it doesn't contribute to anyone's confidence in the design of the home.
One solution is to move the formal entry to the more natural place. This is similar to "desire paths" in a park: pave sidewalks where feet have worn down the grass.
Problem: Unless the spaces in a building are arranged in a sequence which corresponds to their degrees of privateness, the visits made by strangers, friends, guests, clients, family, will always be a little awkward.
That's the benefit of the traditional front door, opening into a dedicated entry space. It is the place where the UPS delivery person knocks and leaves a note; the place where first-time guests are officially greeted and their bottle of wine accepted. Family and good friends might let themselves in, but they don't step into the middle of the home, they proceed toward the middle from the periphery.
Solution: Lay out the spaces of a building so that they create a sequence which begins with the entrance and the most public parts of the building, then leads into the slightly more private areas, and finally to the most private domains.
In Trees House, the owner enters from the garage into the open plan kitchen/dining/family area, and we are considering whether to attach an entry to the open plan (e.g., plan A.7) or to create a hall that starts at the entry and takes a visitor past the living room toward the open space (e.g., plan A.9).
The A.7 approach is more space-efficient. The A.9 plan reveals the home more slowly.
Traditional homes (center hall Colonials, for example) provide a path for visitors to be conducted through a house without disturbing the cocktail party or the bridge game. Father entertains his boss in the living room, Mother greets Aunt at the door and they head to the kitchen. But this traditional thinking leads to the living room as an unused artifact behind an invisible velvet rope.
A.7 does not connect the entry with the middle of the house so much as it makes the middle of the house less intimate, which may be correct. The open plan area--party central, kitchen, dining table, window wall--becomes the public space only one step more intimate than the entry space. The bedrooms and suites are the more intimate areas, not the open plan rooms.
The problem is that this "real world" thinking leads to the feeling that the visitor's entry into the house wasn't designed. It works, and most people wouldn't question it, but it doesn't contribute to anyone's confidence in the design of the home.
One solution is to move the formal entry to the more natural place. This is similar to "desire paths" in a park: pave sidewalks where feet have worn down the grass.
Problem: Unless the spaces in a building are arranged in a sequence which corresponds to their degrees of privateness, the visits made by strangers, friends, guests, clients, family, will always be a little awkward.
That's the benefit of the traditional front door, opening into a dedicated entry space. It is the place where the UPS delivery person knocks and leaves a note; the place where first-time guests are officially greeted and their bottle of wine accepted. Family and good friends might let themselves in, but they don't step into the middle of the home, they proceed toward the middle from the periphery.
Solution: Lay out the spaces of a building so that they create a sequence which begins with the entrance and the most public parts of the building, then leads into the slightly more private areas, and finally to the most private domains.
In Trees House, the owner enters from the garage into the open plan kitchen/dining/family area, and we are considering whether to attach an entry to the open plan (e.g., plan A.7) or to create a hall that starts at the entry and takes a visitor past the living room toward the open space (e.g., plan A.9).
The A.7 approach is more space-efficient. The A.9 plan reveals the home more slowly.
Traditional homes (center hall Colonials, for example) provide a path for visitors to be conducted through a house without disturbing the cocktail party or the bridge game. Father entertains his boss in the living room, Mother greets Aunt at the door and they head to the kitchen. But this traditional thinking leads to the living room as an unused artifact behind an invisible velvet rope.
When shown into one of those polar parlors...the heart cries, "Take me where the people stay; I didn't come to see the chairs."--William C. GannettOne appeal of "open plan" living is that the dining table can be used for many things, not just the occasional formal dinner. A.7 puts the dining table in the middle of things; A.9 creates a polar parlor.
A.7 does not connect the entry with the middle of the house so much as it makes the middle of the house less intimate, which may be correct. The open plan area--party central, kitchen, dining table, window wall--becomes the public space only one step more intimate than the entry space. The bedrooms and suites are the more intimate areas, not the open plan rooms.
![]() |
| Plan B.7 (2/3/15) is A.7 without the stairs to the master suite over the garage |
By keeping the low pitched hip roof on both sides it ties the building together. the 2-story core adds excitement to the design and celebrates the site. The coat/shoe storage at the entry provides privacy while letting the space remain open. The east clerestories let light play across the room on the morning and brightens up the interior.
Wednesday, March 4, 2015
Ask the Expert
I asked Realtor Geoff Hill to drop by so that I could ask my questions about what improvements return the best value. I'm grateful that he gave me over an hour of his time.
Kitchens, baths, and adding square feet are the best investments, he said, as long as the improvements have "universal appeal." He remembered a house with a very nice, high-end urinal installed in a bathroom. Not going to see that money come back. After all my questions, Geoff cautioned that you can't put something like this together with only money in mind. It has to be a labor of love, and that may mean less profit.
He talked about "continuity of design choices," another way of saying that quality design has value. He strongly encourages sellers to move out and pay a few thousand to have the home professionally staged.
We discussed the target market. Sure, my empty-nesters (like Tanya and Kevin or Sharon and Norm) are obvious, but Geoff said there are plenty of childless couples, some in their 20s, with this kind of money to spend. And couples with new children who expect to move again by the time the kids are in school. Or who aren't considering public schools anyway. (He mentioned a private academy up on 145th--perhaps he meant Lakeside School? )
He imagined a scenario of a couple looking to downsize. They've got a super-size home in a development, and they're looking for something more "genuine," a house that costs less to heat and to operate. They would find a "continuity of design choices" plus high energy efficiency appealing.
It seems that two suites would be a plus. A "true MIL" in this neighborhood would be rare, which would mean low inventory, which is good for a seller. But its vital that it be a "flex" room. A small kitchen is great, for example, for a man cave, but if it starts looking too man cave-y, or too much like Gramma's room, to the point that it can't be a rec room for the whole family, then it gets into odd. That is, it fights "continuity of design choices." He looked at Peggy's A.7 and liked it.
I asked whether more, smaller rooms were better than fewer rooms and a feeling of spaciousness. He said, in general, spaciousness is good, but "don't lose a bedroom" to get it. He described a home with 3 small bedrooms remodeled into a home with 2 bedrooms and a real master suite. Not clear that that's a win--it works for buyers looking for a real master, but it turns off families with two kids--the middle of the bell curve.
When you think of 2-bedroom homes, you're competing with condos and townhomes. There are few 3-bedroom condos, so that's the norm in houses. If people are looking for 3-bedrooms, they put that on their search and the 2-bedroom homes don't show up. So, having only 3 bedrooms limits your market a little. Four would expand the market a little.
I asked him if the new front door should open into the Trees Room, or whether it should be near the living room and let the Trees Room come later in the experience, and he was torn. He does think that a truly discrete entry is a plus--there's a place for it on MLS form--and that entry doors that open directly into the living room are not as good. He thinks the existing entry by the garage is not working, because you have no idea where you are when you come in that way.
Likewise, ADA accessibility is on the form, so if you can check that box, you'll pop up on every search that's looking for it. Don't make it obvious, or emphasize it, though--it's a turn-off for the able-bodied.
Hydronic heating is goodness. Buyers up here are tech-savvy and tend to be looking at operating costs when they consider a house. Radiant heat is simply more efficient. It obviously ups the apparent value for Geoff.
On the other hand, he has "mixed feelings" for metal roofs. Obviously, you go from a 40-year roof to a 100-year or lifetime roof, and that's good. But "If metal roofs were worth the extra cost, you'd see a lot more of them."
We talked about kitchens. He thinks the gold standard is Viking, and that there is some value in buying range, refrigerator and dishwasher of the same brand. I mentioned Wolf-like NXR, and he wasn't familiar with it, but thought it would be fine. What about ultra high-end, like Bertazzoni? There are some really picky chefs out there, he said, and you're probably not going to please them anyway. The difference between looks built-in, sort of, and truly built-in in refrigerators is just not worth the money.
A single-bowl stainless steel sink is goodness, certainly no problem with it. Quartz counters, like Caesarstone, seem to be the trend, granite's day was a few years ago. That is, no strong opinion, but a sense that fashion dictates what's in. Actually, thinking about it, the current trend is more eclectic. He said John Lasswell installed a new concrete product in his own home that he was very happy with, and Geoff has seen concrete counters more and more. More "unique" counter materials.
Cabinets are the big expense. The existing painted wood cabinets are fine, but stained wood is more sought-after, in Geoff's opinion, other things being equal. But, he really likes the slick high-gloss cabinet doors he's seen, too. Wood isn't strictly required, and he could imagine scenarios where the wrong wood fights the rest of the design.
I was a little surprised to hear that refinished hardwood floors--being able to advertise "original hardwood"--is a plus. Nothing wrong with all new, too, but there's a value to "original."
Female buyers fantasize about long bubble-baths that busy people never have time for in actuality. Most people of both sexes take showers. Number of baths seems to be less important than number of bedrooms, because people don't search for a minimum number of baths. One trick, if you want to increase your bath number, is that a utility sink counts as a 1/4 bath. So does an outdoor shower head. Fixture count in a bathroom is another metric. A master bath with two lav sinks ("Jack and Jill sinks"), a toilet, and two shower heads is a five-fixture bath even with no tub. Two shower heads appeals to people who don't want anyone else (i.e., their spouse) messing with their shower head.
Should I finish the garage? Yes, without question. Drywall and paint are cheap, and a finished garage makes a good impression.
Should I remove the popcorn ceiling? Oh my god yes. Just get rid of it. We talked about potential asbestos, and how having it done professionally is expensive (starting with testing it), but that homeowners are allowed to do it themselves. I think it's a recent thing and is unlikely to have asbestos, but I didn't say it out loud because Geoff would just have shrugged.
Should we finish the basement? Yes, that's also a no-brainer. Even with the minimal ceiling height and outdoor access. People love to see a place for their seasonal storage, and it's a lot easier to imagine if its finished. Besides, drywall and paint are cheap. We checked my home sales spreadsheet--the average $/SF is $330. Finish the 300 SF basement and you've added $99,000, conceptually. It would be better if there was inside access, of course, but yeah, finish it.
Last bit of advice: Consider going for some kind of energy certification. What about environmental certification? Geoff explained that energy is a two-fer: I'm proud that I'm helping the planet, and I'm also looking forward to the monthly savings. An environmental certification (e.g., use of sustainable materials) just doesn't have the same impact.
Saving the best for last. I asked Geoff, casually, whether a flat membrane roof on the Trees Room would be seen as a oddity--why wasn't the roof consistent--and he said it might be cool to have a pyramid roof on the pop-up section that matched the rest of the roof but was made of glass. Look up at the trees, look up at the stars, let the sunlight flood in. That would be so cool! I immediately sent email to SuperSky and Acurlite.
Kitchens, baths, and adding square feet are the best investments, he said, as long as the improvements have "universal appeal." He remembered a house with a very nice, high-end urinal installed in a bathroom. Not going to see that money come back. After all my questions, Geoff cautioned that you can't put something like this together with only money in mind. It has to be a labor of love, and that may mean less profit.
He talked about "continuity of design choices," another way of saying that quality design has value. He strongly encourages sellers to move out and pay a few thousand to have the home professionally staged.
We discussed the target market. Sure, my empty-nesters (like Tanya and Kevin or Sharon and Norm) are obvious, but Geoff said there are plenty of childless couples, some in their 20s, with this kind of money to spend. And couples with new children who expect to move again by the time the kids are in school. Or who aren't considering public schools anyway. (He mentioned a private academy up on 145th--perhaps he meant Lakeside School? )
He imagined a scenario of a couple looking to downsize. They've got a super-size home in a development, and they're looking for something more "genuine," a house that costs less to heat and to operate. They would find a "continuity of design choices" plus high energy efficiency appealing.
It seems that two suites would be a plus. A "true MIL" in this neighborhood would be rare, which would mean low inventory, which is good for a seller. But its vital that it be a "flex" room. A small kitchen is great, for example, for a man cave, but if it starts looking too man cave-y, or too much like Gramma's room, to the point that it can't be a rec room for the whole family, then it gets into odd. That is, it fights "continuity of design choices." He looked at Peggy's A.7 and liked it.
I asked whether more, smaller rooms were better than fewer rooms and a feeling of spaciousness. He said, in general, spaciousness is good, but "don't lose a bedroom" to get it. He described a home with 3 small bedrooms remodeled into a home with 2 bedrooms and a real master suite. Not clear that that's a win--it works for buyers looking for a real master, but it turns off families with two kids--the middle of the bell curve.
When you think of 2-bedroom homes, you're competing with condos and townhomes. There are few 3-bedroom condos, so that's the norm in houses. If people are looking for 3-bedrooms, they put that on their search and the 2-bedroom homes don't show up. So, having only 3 bedrooms limits your market a little. Four would expand the market a little.
I asked him if the new front door should open into the Trees Room, or whether it should be near the living room and let the Trees Room come later in the experience, and he was torn. He does think that a truly discrete entry is a plus--there's a place for it on MLS form--and that entry doors that open directly into the living room are not as good. He thinks the existing entry by the garage is not working, because you have no idea where you are when you come in that way.
Likewise, ADA accessibility is on the form, so if you can check that box, you'll pop up on every search that's looking for it. Don't make it obvious, or emphasize it, though--it's a turn-off for the able-bodied.
Hydronic heating is goodness. Buyers up here are tech-savvy and tend to be looking at operating costs when they consider a house. Radiant heat is simply more efficient. It obviously ups the apparent value for Geoff.
On the other hand, he has "mixed feelings" for metal roofs. Obviously, you go from a 40-year roof to a 100-year or lifetime roof, and that's good. But "If metal roofs were worth the extra cost, you'd see a lot more of them."
We talked about kitchens. He thinks the gold standard is Viking, and that there is some value in buying range, refrigerator and dishwasher of the same brand. I mentioned Wolf-like NXR, and he wasn't familiar with it, but thought it would be fine. What about ultra high-end, like Bertazzoni? There are some really picky chefs out there, he said, and you're probably not going to please them anyway. The difference between looks built-in, sort of, and truly built-in in refrigerators is just not worth the money.
A single-bowl stainless steel sink is goodness, certainly no problem with it. Quartz counters, like Caesarstone, seem to be the trend, granite's day was a few years ago. That is, no strong opinion, but a sense that fashion dictates what's in. Actually, thinking about it, the current trend is more eclectic. He said John Lasswell installed a new concrete product in his own home that he was very happy with, and Geoff has seen concrete counters more and more. More "unique" counter materials.
Cabinets are the big expense. The existing painted wood cabinets are fine, but stained wood is more sought-after, in Geoff's opinion, other things being equal. But, he really likes the slick high-gloss cabinet doors he's seen, too. Wood isn't strictly required, and he could imagine scenarios where the wrong wood fights the rest of the design.
I was a little surprised to hear that refinished hardwood floors--being able to advertise "original hardwood"--is a plus. Nothing wrong with all new, too, but there's a value to "original."
Female buyers fantasize about long bubble-baths that busy people never have time for in actuality. Most people of both sexes take showers. Number of baths seems to be less important than number of bedrooms, because people don't search for a minimum number of baths. One trick, if you want to increase your bath number, is that a utility sink counts as a 1/4 bath. So does an outdoor shower head. Fixture count in a bathroom is another metric. A master bath with two lav sinks ("Jack and Jill sinks"), a toilet, and two shower heads is a five-fixture bath even with no tub. Two shower heads appeals to people who don't want anyone else (i.e., their spouse) messing with their shower head.
Should I finish the garage? Yes, without question. Drywall and paint are cheap, and a finished garage makes a good impression.
Should I remove the popcorn ceiling? Oh my god yes. Just get rid of it. We talked about potential asbestos, and how having it done professionally is expensive (starting with testing it), but that homeowners are allowed to do it themselves. I think it's a recent thing and is unlikely to have asbestos, but I didn't say it out loud because Geoff would just have shrugged.
Should we finish the basement? Yes, that's also a no-brainer. Even with the minimal ceiling height and outdoor access. People love to see a place for their seasonal storage, and it's a lot easier to imagine if its finished. Besides, drywall and paint are cheap. We checked my home sales spreadsheet--the average $/SF is $330. Finish the 300 SF basement and you've added $99,000, conceptually. It would be better if there was inside access, of course, but yeah, finish it.
Last bit of advice: Consider going for some kind of energy certification. What about environmental certification? Geoff explained that energy is a two-fer: I'm proud that I'm helping the planet, and I'm also looking forward to the monthly savings. An environmental certification (e.g., use of sustainable materials) just doesn't have the same impact.
Saving the best for last. I asked Geoff, casually, whether a flat membrane roof on the Trees Room would be seen as a oddity--why wasn't the roof consistent--and he said it might be cool to have a pyramid roof on the pop-up section that matched the rest of the roof but was made of glass. Look up at the trees, look up at the stars, let the sunlight flood in. That would be so cool! I immediately sent email to SuperSky and Acurlite.
Tuesday, March 3, 2015
Today's Updates
A couple of threads need to be updated. First, the angst over the value add vs. construction investment.
What's the Number We Have to Hit?
It's really simple, and it looks like this: There is overhead to selling the future house (6% realtor commissions, 1.78% excise tax). There is a minimum profit needed on the construction funds: 7% per year, or I should put the construction funds into a better investment. (One could argue that the money spent buying the house should earn its keep, as well, but I have to live somewhere.)
This sets up a simple table:
Clearly, I would like to do much better than 7%, so I hope these sales numbers are low. Break it down: Sell for $568,487, pay $34,109 in commissions, $10,119 in excise tax. Net: $524,259, or $7,259 profit over the ($467,000 + $50,000) I put in. Sell for $692,640, net $638,753, or $21,753 profit on $150,000 in construction investment.
The neighborhood might appreciate 8% per year (or it might not appreciate at all), so the sale price in Spring 2017 should be some 16% higher naturally. If we could spend $50,000 today and sell tomorrow for $568,487--I said "if"--then we might sell for $663,083 in 2017, adjusted for appreciation. That would be an additional $87,236 profit, turning our 7% into a 37.47% profit. If we could assume appreciation, we could contemplate selling for less to still make our 7%, but that would be very risky.
Forced Air vs. Hydronic
I chatted with Johnathan Jones again tonight and, as usual, left with more to think about. I have been using the ballpark $20,000 number that Northwest Mechanical gave me, and the $9,000 I have heard from various sources (including Master Works Construction) for a new gas furnace and ducting upgrade. So, I conclude that Hydronic is about an $11,000 upgrade on a basic heating system.
Johnathan pointed out that heating the big volume in a Trees Room with forced air is a bigger deal. It's really $9,000 plus the cost of forcing air into an almost 6,000 CF space (for comparison, the Master Bedroom is 1,500 CF). Heated air rises, so you have to overdo forced air to keep the temperature 3' off the ground warm.
But underfloor hydronic works perfectly in this situation. The radiant heat from the floor warms at people level with much greater efficiency. Net net: Hydronic is only a $6000 or $7000 extravagance.
I'm sold that heating the floor rather than blowing dust and allergens around makes perfect sense, but I wonder how the market takes it. 214 NW 140th St is a spec house with hydronic heating. At a recent open house, they felt the need to hand out one-page flyers explaining hydronic heating. I didn't yet know myself, and it sounded to me like they were justifying a cost-cutting move. Let me tell you about plastic kitchen sinks--the sink of the future.
I love this comp (214 NW 140th St): "New construction in Broadview! Contemporary architecture in a classic style. Three bedrooms, 2.25 baths. Two-car garage with spacious driveway for additional off-street parking. Huge yard on this 8,235 square foot corner lot. Tankless hot water heater. Hydronic heating system. Beautiful kitchen adjoining dining area and large living room with see-through gas fireplace." Our lot is 2,430 SF larger. They have 3/2.25, we have 3/2.5. They have 2,419 SF, but they're on a corner lot with busy 3rd Ave NW right there and they have no backyard at all. They are asking $799,000 and it's not moving, but that's a nice ballpark. And it's $330.30/SF.
City26, the Isola development at Meridian N and 140th St, brags about its "cutting-edge HVAC system. The combination of a heat recovery ventilator and ductless Mitsubishi heat pump creates an ideal environment of fresh air + efficient heating and cooling." One of the first contemporary mini subdivisions I saw, 1550 NW 60th St, says "Hot Water Recirc Pump, Radiant, Wall" instead of the typical "Forced Air" for Heating/Cooling.
The high-end Canopy at Maple Leaf development features "In Floor Radiant Heat & Mini Split AC." Sage Homes Northwest features "Mitsubishi FE12 Mini Split Ductless Heat Pump with Cooling."
What's the Number We Have to Hit?
It's really simple, and it looks like this: There is overhead to selling the future house (6% realtor commissions, 1.78% excise tax). There is a minimum profit needed on the construction funds: 7% per year, or I should put the construction funds into a better investment. (One could argue that the money spent buying the house should earn its keep, as well, but I have to live somewhere.)
This sets up a simple table:
| Construction Investment | | Min. Sale Price |
|---|---|
| $50,000 | $568,487 |
| $100,000 | $630,563 |
| $150,000 | $692,640 |
| $200,000 | $754,716 |
Clearly, I would like to do much better than 7%, so I hope these sales numbers are low. Break it down: Sell for $568,487, pay $34,109 in commissions, $10,119 in excise tax. Net: $524,259, or $7,259 profit over the ($467,000 + $50,000) I put in. Sell for $692,640, net $638,753, or $21,753 profit on $150,000 in construction investment.
The neighborhood might appreciate 8% per year (or it might not appreciate at all), so the sale price in Spring 2017 should be some 16% higher naturally. If we could spend $50,000 today and sell tomorrow for $568,487--I said "if"--then we might sell for $663,083 in 2017, adjusted for appreciation. That would be an additional $87,236 profit, turning our 7% into a 37.47% profit. If we could assume appreciation, we could contemplate selling for less to still make our 7%, but that would be very risky.
Forced Air vs. Hydronic
I chatted with Johnathan Jones again tonight and, as usual, left with more to think about. I have been using the ballpark $20,000 number that Northwest Mechanical gave me, and the $9,000 I have heard from various sources (including Master Works Construction) for a new gas furnace and ducting upgrade. So, I conclude that Hydronic is about an $11,000 upgrade on a basic heating system.
Johnathan pointed out that heating the big volume in a Trees Room with forced air is a bigger deal. It's really $9,000 plus the cost of forcing air into an almost 6,000 CF space (for comparison, the Master Bedroom is 1,500 CF). Heated air rises, so you have to overdo forced air to keep the temperature 3' off the ground warm.
But underfloor hydronic works perfectly in this situation. The radiant heat from the floor warms at people level with much greater efficiency. Net net: Hydronic is only a $6000 or $7000 extravagance.
I'm sold that heating the floor rather than blowing dust and allergens around makes perfect sense, but I wonder how the market takes it. 214 NW 140th St is a spec house with hydronic heating. At a recent open house, they felt the need to hand out one-page flyers explaining hydronic heating. I didn't yet know myself, and it sounded to me like they were justifying a cost-cutting move. Let me tell you about plastic kitchen sinks--the sink of the future.
I love this comp (214 NW 140th St): "New construction in Broadview! Contemporary architecture in a classic style. Three bedrooms, 2.25 baths. Two-car garage with spacious driveway for additional off-street parking. Huge yard on this 8,235 square foot corner lot. Tankless hot water heater. Hydronic heating system. Beautiful kitchen adjoining dining area and large living room with see-through gas fireplace." Our lot is 2,430 SF larger. They have 3/2.25, we have 3/2.5. They have 2,419 SF, but they're on a corner lot with busy 3rd Ave NW right there and they have no backyard at all. They are asking $799,000 and it's not moving, but that's a nice ballpark. And it's $330.30/SF.
City26, the Isola development at Meridian N and 140th St, brags about its "cutting-edge HVAC system. The combination of a heat recovery ventilator and ductless Mitsubishi heat pump creates an ideal environment of fresh air + efficient heating and cooling." One of the first contemporary mini subdivisions I saw, 1550 NW 60th St, says "Hot Water Recirc Pump, Radiant, Wall" instead of the typical "Forced Air" for Heating/Cooling.
The high-end Canopy at Maple Leaf development features "In Floor Radiant Heat & Mini Split AC." Sage Homes Northwest features "Mitsubishi FE12 Mini Split Ductless Heat Pump with Cooling."
Monday, March 2, 2015
The Whole Package
More thoughtfulness about the whole project. The goal is to put in as little money as possible and get as big a return as possible. We've discussed $0 in--Broadview is supposed to appreciate 8%/year, Zillow already values the place higher. But two years later, the roof will be even closer to end of life.
So, imagine that we put on a new roof and repaint the outside. We pop out the garage and install a brand new garage door. We install a gas range, new refrigerator and dishwasher, along with new cabinets and a quartz countertop. We improve 3 bathrooms and replace a couple of windows. We re-paint most of the rooms. Call that Basic.
The question is: Is Basic enough of a package? Will elements like the oil furnace, or the odd enclosed breezeway, or blue wood deck, or the lack of a media area spoil the overall package? Here's a freshly painted, new roofed house with a snazzy kitchen upgrade. 3 bedrooms, 2.5 baths, 1596 SF. My gut says that might sell for as much as $640,000 ($401/SF).
What would a high-tech hydronic heating system, or a dramatic Trees Room add to the sale price? How about a metal roof? I'd like a drywalled garage with an epoxy painted floor--does that add value? What about popping ceilings up for clerestory windows? Our old friends Wolf and Sub-zero?
I'm sure that more square feet would help the price. 400 SF would make $640,000 a steal at $305/SF. But to really add value, that 400-600 SF should include another bedroom and full bath. That's the way to break $700,000. 4 bedrooms, 3.5 baths, 2,196 SF with the paint and the kitchen and new roof--could be $730,000 ($332/SF). Hopefully the new bath would be as eye-popping as the kitchen--fancy shower, soaking tub, twin lavs, quartz counters, glass shower door, heated floor, walk-in closet.
Basic costs about $52,000, done cheaply. If Basic could sell for $640 (I don't think it can), we'd net $71,208 profit, or 137% of the construction investment.
So, add a 600 SF high-end Master Suite. Trouble is, that could be $100,000 by itself--$166/SF makes sense for the second floor structure and high-end finishes. But we can swing $152,000.
So here's the pitch: 4 BR, 3.5 BA, 2196 SF. New roof, new kitchen, new baths. Still got an oil furnace, no dramatic Trees Room, no metal roof, no Wolf and Sub-zero. We might get $750,000 if the kitchen and master bath really pop. The net is almost exactly the same as Basic--$72,650--but now it represents only 47.8% of the construction investment.
Here's a comparable: 206 NW 143rd St 4/3.5, 3622 SF, sold for $825,000 last October. It's got 1,426 SF more than us on a 6500 SF lot (ours is 10,665 SF). Thing is, this house is 12 years old. 12024 7th Ave NW is 4/3.5, about as old as we are, but it is 4,450 SF on a lot our size. It sold in December for $835,000, but it does have a peekaboo view of the sound. (The Zestimate for it is over a million.) If $/SF matters to buyers, we would be asking $341.50/SF at $750,000, not the $188-$227 these comps got. At $227, we could only ask $498,000.
The blurb for the 12 year old house is: "Remodeled in 2011. Absolutely top-of-the-line kitchen French kitchen featuring white oak hardwood floors, a Lacanche Sully gas range, limestone hood, marble tile backsplash mosaic by Francois & Co., stunning granite countertops, enormous granite topped island, custom cabinetry by Hewitt Cabinets, Thermador Freedom refrigerator and freezer columns (paneled to match cabinetry), Miele La Perla dishwasher (paneled to match island cabinets), under counter JennAir microwave, custom powder room featuring a natural river rock wall."
13250 6th Ave NW is a few years older than us, with 4/2.5 and 2790 SF. I considered this house--it's on a nice dead end street with more expensive homes nearby. It sold for $588,000. If I put in $152,000 and have to sell for $588,000, I lose $76,746 on the investment.
The answer is that we can't do everything, and yet we must do some things that are not of obvious utility. We have meat and potatoes and basic eye appeal, but there should also be some sugar and some vitamins. Some surprises, like the power room with the river rock wall, and some good-for-you things like replacing the decades-old heating vents. It's the whole package that seals the deal. I'm sorry that I can't just dictate what the elements must be, but the economics forcing me to be more careful...and more clever.
So, imagine that we put on a new roof and repaint the outside. We pop out the garage and install a brand new garage door. We install a gas range, new refrigerator and dishwasher, along with new cabinets and a quartz countertop. We improve 3 bathrooms and replace a couple of windows. We re-paint most of the rooms. Call that Basic.
![]() |
| 1948 House 4BR, 3.5 BA, 4450 SF at 12024 7th Ave NW |
What would a high-tech hydronic heating system, or a dramatic Trees Room add to the sale price? How about a metal roof? I'd like a drywalled garage with an epoxy painted floor--does that add value? What about popping ceilings up for clerestory windows? Our old friends Wolf and Sub-zero?
I'm sure that more square feet would help the price. 400 SF would make $640,000 a steal at $305/SF. But to really add value, that 400-600 SF should include another bedroom and full bath. That's the way to break $700,000. 4 bedrooms, 3.5 baths, 2,196 SF with the paint and the kitchen and new roof--could be $730,000 ($332/SF). Hopefully the new bath would be as eye-popping as the kitchen--fancy shower, soaking tub, twin lavs, quartz counters, glass shower door, heated floor, walk-in closet.
Basic costs about $52,000, done cheaply. If Basic could sell for $640 (I don't think it can), we'd net $71,208 profit, or 137% of the construction investment.
![]() |
| French kitchen in 12-year-old comparable at 206 NW 143rd. |
So here's the pitch: 4 BR, 3.5 BA, 2196 SF. New roof, new kitchen, new baths. Still got an oil furnace, no dramatic Trees Room, no metal roof, no Wolf and Sub-zero. We might get $750,000 if the kitchen and master bath really pop. The net is almost exactly the same as Basic--$72,650--but now it represents only 47.8% of the construction investment.
Here's a comparable: 206 NW 143rd St 4/3.5, 3622 SF, sold for $825,000 last October. It's got 1,426 SF more than us on a 6500 SF lot (ours is 10,665 SF). Thing is, this house is 12 years old. 12024 7th Ave NW is 4/3.5, about as old as we are, but it is 4,450 SF on a lot our size. It sold in December for $835,000, but it does have a peekaboo view of the sound. (The Zestimate for it is over a million.) If $/SF matters to buyers, we would be asking $341.50/SF at $750,000, not the $188-$227 these comps got. At $227, we could only ask $498,000.
The blurb for the 12 year old house is: "Remodeled in 2011. Absolutely top-of-the-line kitchen French kitchen featuring white oak hardwood floors, a Lacanche Sully gas range, limestone hood, marble tile backsplash mosaic by Francois & Co., stunning granite countertops, enormous granite topped island, custom cabinetry by Hewitt Cabinets, Thermador Freedom refrigerator and freezer columns (paneled to match cabinetry), Miele La Perla dishwasher (paneled to match island cabinets), under counter JennAir microwave, custom powder room featuring a natural river rock wall."
13250 6th Ave NW is a few years older than us, with 4/2.5 and 2790 SF. I considered this house--it's on a nice dead end street with more expensive homes nearby. It sold for $588,000. If I put in $152,000 and have to sell for $588,000, I lose $76,746 on the investment.
The answer is that we can't do everything, and yet we must do some things that are not of obvious utility. We have meat and potatoes and basic eye appeal, but there should also be some sugar and some vitamins. Some surprises, like the power room with the river rock wall, and some good-for-you things like replacing the decades-old heating vents. It's the whole package that seals the deal. I'm sorry that I can't just dictate what the elements must be, but the economics forcing me to be more careful...and more clever.
T.h.e. Floor Guy
Just met a real pro flooring guy, Jeff Lane, owner of Lane Hardwood Floors. He's got a showroom at 14700 Aurora Ave. I previously met with Craig Munson, owner of Seattle Floor Service, on Feb. 20. I liked Mr. Lane more.
He identified 2.25" x .75" No. 1. Red Oak in the living room, dining room, and bedrooms. The hall outside the MBr was probably added later, he said, and they used Select Red Oak. The oak has a natural, un-stained finish, which initially brings out the red, but the red goes away and it looks more yellow later in life. Sanding it down and refinishing it will bring out the red again, but they can tease out just about any color we want, or they can stain it.
Mr. Lane is confident he can feather in new to repair or blend whole new rooms. I asked him to bid just fixing what's here, since I'm uncertain about the new floor plan. He mentioned that they usually do the floors after the walls have been painted, so the context is there for deciding on floor color.
Both Lane and Munson pointed out the visible nail heads at the north living room window wall. They both thought it was a repair, perhaps from water damage. Mr. Lane pointed out a poor feathering job, with three joins very close together. Where Munson said replace the living room floor, Lane said it's got one more sanding left in it.
Munson's bid doesn't break it down, but he has new Select Red Oak in living, dining and part of hall (not including removing the old) and refinishing the bedrooms and the rest of the hall for $6483.30 (plus tax). Lane said he'd send his bid by 3/3.
I asked Lane about prefinished hardwood (as seen 3/1 at Lumber Liquidators). He explained that each board has an eased edge--a "micro-groove"--that makes it look obviously different than a sanded-in-place floor. At first, it was odd, but now it's accepted since so many high-end spec houses use it. But it's a different kind of look. I asked whether it was harder to clean and he explained that giving the dust and dirt a tiny place to hide means that the particles aren't ground into the surface, making the floor last longer and look cleaner. So, he's become a reluctant fan of the prefinished. Solid hardwood is usually 3/4", prefinished is usually 5/8" or less.
Lane explained, by the way, that you've got about 1/4" above the tongue or groove on a board. The nail is hidden by the top of the groove. So when you see the nail, that means you've sanded off most of the top 1/4". To repair the living room by the front door, he would first carefully "set" each nail below the surface.
I asked him about click-lock, floating flooring, since I had some sample from Home Depot. Junk, he said, using other words. Nothing wrong with floating floor, but click-lock is too thin, uses crummy materials, and has no wear layer. No good.
Finally, I asked about under-floor hydronic. Turns out, he thinks hydronic is great, but you just can't use it with solid hardwood, because it causes expansion and cracks. With hydronic, use engineered hardwood, which is dimensionally stable by design.
We also talked about baseboards. The existing baseboards have what is called a "base shoe"--it's 1/2" high and 3/4" wide. (I mistakenly called it a quarter-round.) It's there to hide imperfections in the board ends. It's optional--they can even fix old floors by feathering in pieces where needed.
At least one site recommends a floating engineered wood floor over radiant heat. Perhaps something like Bellawood prefinished engineered bamboo (currently $3.49/SF at Lumber Liquidators).
Jeff Lane
Lane Hardwood Floors
14700 Aurora Ave. N
Shoreline, WA 98133
(206) 622-9669
jeff@lanehardwoodfloors.com
He identified 2.25" x .75" No. 1. Red Oak in the living room, dining room, and bedrooms. The hall outside the MBr was probably added later, he said, and they used Select Red Oak. The oak has a natural, un-stained finish, which initially brings out the red, but the red goes away and it looks more yellow later in life. Sanding it down and refinishing it will bring out the red again, but they can tease out just about any color we want, or they can stain it.
Mr. Lane is confident he can feather in new to repair or blend whole new rooms. I asked him to bid just fixing what's here, since I'm uncertain about the new floor plan. He mentioned that they usually do the floors after the walls have been painted, so the context is there for deciding on floor color.
| Image from Lane Hardwood Floor web site |
Munson's bid doesn't break it down, but he has new Select Red Oak in living, dining and part of hall (not including removing the old) and refinishing the bedrooms and the rest of the hall for $6483.30 (plus tax). Lane said he'd send his bid by 3/3.
I asked Lane about prefinished hardwood (as seen 3/1 at Lumber Liquidators). He explained that each board has an eased edge--a "micro-groove"--that makes it look obviously different than a sanded-in-place floor. At first, it was odd, but now it's accepted since so many high-end spec houses use it. But it's a different kind of look. I asked whether it was harder to clean and he explained that giving the dust and dirt a tiny place to hide means that the particles aren't ground into the surface, making the floor last longer and look cleaner. So, he's become a reluctant fan of the prefinished. Solid hardwood is usually 3/4", prefinished is usually 5/8" or less.
Lane explained, by the way, that you've got about 1/4" above the tongue or groove on a board. The nail is hidden by the top of the groove. So when you see the nail, that means you've sanded off most of the top 1/4". To repair the living room by the front door, he would first carefully "set" each nail below the surface.
I asked him about click-lock, floating flooring, since I had some sample from Home Depot. Junk, he said, using other words. Nothing wrong with floating floor, but click-lock is too thin, uses crummy materials, and has no wear layer. No good.
Finally, I asked about under-floor hydronic. Turns out, he thinks hydronic is great, but you just can't use it with solid hardwood, because it causes expansion and cracks. With hydronic, use engineered hardwood, which is dimensionally stable by design.
We also talked about baseboards. The existing baseboards have what is called a "base shoe"--it's 1/2" high and 3/4" wide. (I mistakenly called it a quarter-round.) It's there to hide imperfections in the board ends. It's optional--they can even fix old floors by feathering in pieces where needed.
At least one site recommends a floating engineered wood floor over radiant heat. Perhaps something like Bellawood prefinished engineered bamboo (currently $3.49/SF at Lumber Liquidators).
![]() |
BELLAWOOD Bamboo 9/16" x 5-1/8" Golden Ultra-Strand
|
Lane Hardwood Floors
14700 Aurora Ave. N
Shoreline, WA 98133
(206) 622-9669
jeff@lanehardwoodfloors.com
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