Roofing Bids

Update 3/1/24: Spoke to Odilio of Mata's Roofing and gave him verbal okay for his 2/29 ~9pm proposal. Agreed to an extra $2000 for SBS shingles. We'll get together the week of 3/4 to sign the contract. Price is $18368 + 10.25% tax ($1882.72), total: $20,250.72.

I told Odilio that I wanted the materials here before I give him the second payment. Now I'm thinking that I want him to say the work will start, as well.

Schedule

3/6 (about) - $5,062.68. Notify Valentine, Blue and Blue, Elite

Before work starts: Finish fascia all around. Remove carport. Provide power

3/25 (weather permitting) - Shingles arrive, another $5,062.68

4/2 - Remaining $10,125.36 + any extras

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Roof Shingle Olympics video from last summer ranks the shingles. OC Duration was very good, OC Oakridge not too bad. CertainTeed Landmark is middle good, but GAF Timberline HDZ or NS are not recommended.

Add 10.25% sales tax.

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Valentine Roofing - 22406 (first contract) - 20142 (no gutters = -4567)

Shingles: Owens Corning Duration - 22406 (21710, -696 if Oakridge instead) 50-year (Duration only)

Ridges and Hips: OC Pro Edge H&R

Ice and Water: OC WeatherLock Mat at protrusions. Valleys?

Underlayment: Titanium X30

Starter Flashing: 

Gutters - warranty is void if any filter, cover or guard installed. 6" K-style +4567

Additional Layer Removal: $75/square (18 squares = +$1350), $94/sheet of CDX

Dry Rot: Does not include replacing OSB! Rate is $94 per sheet of CDX (257 LF x 2 = 16 sheets = 1504). What the heck is "This bid includes no re-sheet with 4 sheets of 1/2" CDX, installed on 0-7 pitch?"

Pipe Boots: 

Promotion -2127 (first contract) -2264 (second contract)

Permits: Customer responsible for cost of permits

Additional Work: $85/man-hour, 45% added to materials

Payment: $0 down, Balance "due after down payment" When?

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Blue and Blue - 27495

Shingles: CertainTeed Landmark Classic - linear venting: Edge intake venting, cut 3/4" slot

Ridges and Hips:

Ice and Water:  At valleys and protrusions, but not at edges

Underlayment: CertainTeed Diamond Deck

Starter Flashing: 1x3 starter flashing - 26ga

Gutters:  5" K-style, 2x3 downspouts. (Rain City Gutters)

Additional Layer Removal: $35/square (or more) 18 squares = +$630

Dry Rot: Does not include replacing OSB! That's $77.50/man-hour + $95/sheet of 1/2" CDX plywood, whole sheets only. - $26/sheet at Home Depot--that's some markup! $52 at Dunn Lumber.

Pipe boots: Replace all with No Caulk (upgrade to lead on request)

Payment: 10% when contract signed, 40% on start of job

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Odilio Mauricio (Mata-C - Mata's Roofing Company) - TBD

Shingles: GAF Timberline HDZ

Ridges and Hips:

Ice and Water:

Underlayment: 

Starter Flashing:

Gutters:

Additional Layer Removal:

Dry Rot:

Pipe Boots: 

Sloped flashing at chimney (not stepped)

Flapper vent for BA1 vent fan.

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Gu-Wi - 15300

Shingles: CertainTeed Landmark - Price is for 18 squares

Ridges and Hips: CertainTeed

Ice and Water: All penetrations and entire perimeter and valleys

Underlayment: 

Starter Flashing: Yes, all edges. With "storm nailing"

Gutters:

Valleys: Metal

Additional Layer Removal: Avg is $200 per layer, based on size of roof

Dry Rot: $90-$150 per sheet, depending on roof pitch

Pipe Boots: Metal flashings on all protrusions 

Chimney: Metal flashing

Safety anchors for future workers per code

Payment: 1/3 deposit (5100), balance at completion (10200)

Exterior Paint Rationale

Seemingly hundreds of colors, test painting, and two Sherwin-Williams color consultant reviews have led to here. Some kind of gray with Pure White trim will be fine for the sides and back of the house. A light gray, such as Gray Screen, is blinding on the south side--it's practically white.

Green-gray with an accent color

On the front side, we want "color blocking" on the garage and breezeway--everything, including the brick, painted with the same gray color. It will seem a shade or two darker because it's in shadow. Our choice of a gray is bounded: Gray Screen (LRV 59) is way too light, but Web Gray (LRV 13) will be dreary on the front of the house.

Pure White will tie everything together: fascia, soffit, window and door frames. Except--we don't use white trim on the front breezeway and garage doors. White trim on both BR3 windows.

Single Color

Two colors side by side is "odd" in Broadview. I only know of one house that attempts it and it is low-contrast, so I think it was just the result of leaving the old color on some walls.

What color? Regardless of specific shade, we have only a few categories that seem to work (in order of LRV):

• Black or near black (Tricorn, Greenblack, Naval, Cyberspace) 3-4
• Dark Blue (Salty Dog, Granite Peak) 5-14
• Dark Green (Laurel Woods, Pewter Green, Retreat) 12-21
• Dark Gray (Web Gray, Homburg Gray) 13-15
• Medium Blue (Storm Cloud) 23
• Medium Green (Evergreen Fog) 30
• Medium Gray (African Gray, Earl Grey) 31-32
• Light Blue - looks awful!
• Light Green
• Light Gray (Mineral Deposit, Knitting Needles, Comfort Gray, Gray Screen) 43-59

I considered Glitzy Gold (a SW expert pick!), Moroccan Spice, Porpoise, Canvas Tan, Amazing Gray--all outside my comfort zone.

Black vs. white. Black can work, but I don't think it's right for this little house at the edge of the woods. Very light gray looks good, like the full-sun example at 910 120th, but if you squint it would make Trees House look all white.

Gray vs. green. On the Breezeway, I am seeing African Gray next to Escape Gray. Forget the names: it's green-gray (as in the example above) against battleship gray. The intensity seems right--not too dark, not too light--but I think I lean green. 

Evergreen Fog is emerging as the choice. It's one shade darker than Escape Gray (as suggested by the first SW color consultant). It was the 2022 color of the year. One shade even darker (LRV 30 down to 21) would be Dried Thyme, which has the same LRV as Retreat.

Evergreen Fog (LRV 30)

Dried Thyme (LRV 21) one shade darker than Evergreen Fog

Retreat (LRV 21) (Note: fake grass gives green tinge)

Hero Corner

This leaves what I'm calling the "hero corner"--the main house from breezeway around to the brick at the living room window. I want that to contrast with the gray. I considered Tricorn Black (LRV 3). It's edgy, as hoped, referencing Shou Sugi Ban, or burnt cedar siding used in Japan. The problem is standing on the porch surrounded by black. Even with a Pure White door and white door and window trim, I think it will feel gloomy. I mocked up using black with the dining room wall a light accent color, but that just seems too busy.

Hero corner: Laurel Woods; House: Earl Grey; Door: Down Pour

The dark blue on the lower part of the house now seems somewhere between Storm Cloud (LRV 23) and Granite Peak (LRV 14). The blue seems even darker on the south side, in the sun. LRV more like Cloak Gray (LRV 11) or Grays Harbor (LRV 12). This suggests that the hero corner color--the house accent color--can have an LRV between 16 and 20 without seeming impossibly dark. Lighter than 20 and the gray part will seem darker, which will draw attention to the garage.

Hero corner: Sea Serpent; House: Earl Grey; Door: Daisy

Possible accent colors are blue, green, or neutral. I think neutral colors (such as Peppercorn) will conflict, rather than be set off by, the gray house. Blues include Sea Serpent (LRV 7), Salty Dog (LRV 5), Naval (LRV 4). Greens include Greenblack (LRV 4), Laurel Woods (LRV 6), Isle of Pines (LRV 8), Pewter Green (LRV 12), Cilantro (LRV 14), Dried Thyme (LRV 21), Retreat (LRV 21).

Hero corner: Cilantro; House: African Gray; Door: Daisy

I analyzed SW grays and created a table in order to find one in the LRV 21 to 33 range. (Acier, already on the east garage wall, is LRV 32.) Earl Grey (LRV 32) is light and cool, with charcoal and green undertones. Classic French Gray (LRV 24) is warm and was recommended by the SW color consultant. And African Gray (LRV 31) is the most neutral gray I've found. I considered those tiny samples on different walls on a sunny day.

(l to r) Earl Gray, Classic French Gray, and African Gray on an Acier background

(l to r) Earl Gray, Classic French Gray, and African Gray at south breezeway

(l to r) Earl Gray, Classic French Gray, and African Gray in sunlight at old greenhouse location

 

Front Door '24

I wrote about the front door in 2020. Doing a bit of research, I see that we have wood, fiberglass and steel doors. Wood doors are meant to be stained and I don't think I want stained wood. Unless there are downsides to fiberglass, I think that's what I want, but Home Depot sells pre-hung steel that I should look at.

The door must allow light (because the house and living room face north and because a solid door is boring). I don't want most glass, however, so there are only a few obvious possibilities. Ours is a LH Inswing, by the way.

I like a bright yellow, but a bright green or blue might better fit the Coastal Forest colors inside. Pure White makes the porch feel lighter, so that would work.

Home Depot sells a steel Jeld Wen door in the 6-lite Craftsman pattern, in white, for $429. That seems a lot cheaper than anything at Frank Lumber, which calls itself "The Door Store" (and which doesn't seem to sell steel doors). Lowes has a Therma-Tru Benchmark fiberglass door, ready to paint, with simulated true divided lights in that Craftsman pattern for $498. At least one YouTuber prefers fiberglass over steel--steel can rust over time and is susceptible to dents. Both are equally energy-efficient and secure.

Sophisticated Paint Color

Nothing is more "sophisticated" than black. It invokes the burned cedar siding used in Japan using a technique called Shou Sugi Ban. It also seems like an architect was involved.

I still want white soffits for reflected light, so I think I want white fascia, white gutters and downspouts.

Tricorn Black walls, trim, brick.

Tricorn Black, Pure White brick, Attitude Gray garage doors

I'm wondering if we want black on black trim

Garage door alternate: Laurel Woods. Should we paint the brick black?

There are a number of black houses in Broadview.

1004 NW 127th - Seems to match Iron Ore (South elev)

12202 9th Ave NW (West elev)

12500 12th Ave NW (West elev)

12515 10th Ave NW (East elev)

The north-facing house one block north of me seems black, but it photographs as blue.

815 NW 120th (North elev)

Using the SW Colors

I think all gray would be blah. All blue (Refuge) would not be much better. In playing around, I think I prefer white trim to black. Perhaps the "sophistication" I'm thinking of is using more than one color, like this:

Refuge (blue) on the main house; Earl Grey on the Breezeway and Garage

For the backyard, we do the "sophisticated" thing and paint the Breezeway the house color, not the Garage color.

Walls (Main House): Refuge [1550 SF 8 gallons (2 coats)]

Walls (Garage and North Breezeway): Earl Grey [850 SF 5 gallons (2 coats)]

Fascia and Soffit: Pure White

Window/front door trim, corner window at Kitchen: Pure White

Brick at North Breezeway, Garage doors: Pure White (Loxon) [56 SF 1 quart?]

Garage doors: Earl Grey

Garage door trim: Tricorn Black

Breezeway door: Earl Grey

Breezeway door trim: Refuge (not black as illustrated)

Front door: Colonial Yellow

BR3 door: Chrysanthemum

South side is actually more washed out due to the sun

Big difference, right?

Refuge is a nice blue (LRV 19), but we could do green or go more intense with either blue or green.

Blue 

Darker than Refuge (19): Tempe Star (11), Rainstorm (5)

Bluer, less gray undertone: Aleutian (39), Daphne (32), Bracing Blue (25), Distance (15), Indigo Batik (8)

The existing blue on the house is similar to Distance, but has a red or purple undertone, instead of Distance's "denim gray" undertone. Maybe more like a 20 LRV?

Green

Nurture Green? Coastal Plain? Willow Tree?

Darker than Escape Gray: Evergreen Fog (30), Dried Thyme (21), Rosemary (14), Shade-Grown (8)

Greener: Nurture Green (40), Agate Green (34), Inland (22), Cilantro (14), Shamrock (6)

Very gray: Pewter Green (12). Retreat (21)

Sherwin-Williams Color Recommendations

I had a FaceTime call with Liz A. Sparrow, a Sherwin-Williams color consultant on 13 Feb at 2pm. We talked for 20 minutes and she emailed me a color palette 20 minutes after that.

First thing: Pick the color swatch you want, then go one shade darker (the next color down) for exterior because the sun. If I liked Escape Gray, she would suggest Evergreen Fog (one shade darker) because...sun.

Don't look at the new color next to the existing dark blue--it messes with the undertones. She recommends painting a sample on white poster board, with a big white margin, and walking it around the house.

Two-tone makes a house seem more horizontal. Color drenching makes a house seem larger. Given that the house is already pretty horizontal, there's no reason to accentuate that. She wouldn't call attention to a puny molding that divides the wall.

If you paint the bricks with Loxon, it should be Pure White. If you don't want to draw attention to the garage doors, give them the wall color. A contrasting trim is fine.

All paint, including trim, should be Satin finish, she says.

I told her I thought Escape Gray was too light and seemed almost pastel. She asked would you go more green, or more gray and I said gray. Her palette gives me three related grays: the lightest (Mineral Deposit) is similar to Escape Gray, a medium (Earl Grey), and a dark (Attitude Gray). She also included Tricorn Black and an off-black: Iron Ore. We talked about a color pop for the front door, so she included 3 compatible colors--I like the Colonial Yellow best, I think.

Liz Sparrow's suggested colors.

I got tiny swatches of her colors and looked at them outdoors:

I found a gray house in the neighborhood that suggests how something as dark as Attitude Gray might look.

I like the basic gray, but so much white seems boring. I wonder if white fascia, but blackish lower trim might be better.

Attitude Gray with Mineral Deposit trim (and Breezeway door)

Mineral Deposit with Iron Ore trim

Earl Grey with Iron Ore trim. Porch walls in Mineral Deposit

Earl Grey with Pure White trim

Here are a couple of other ideas, both with Pure White trim. Also with real shadows (should have turned that on earlier).

Refuge with Pure White trim

Exterior Projects

Ten months ago, I put together a list of exterior projects that still seems like a good way to organize designs, budgets, and todo lists.

EXT.1 - Rotten fascia, gutters, downspouts--In Progress. New fascia lumber is $2/LF. New gutters with leaf covers are in the $4,000 range. I hope to be done by the end of March 2024.

(This also included a new roof, which I've moved to EXT.18)

Need Design

EXT.19 - Decide exterior colors and repaint house. Bids in the $9,000 range--maybe I could do it myself?

EXT.17 - Enclosure for tankless water heater.

EXT.3 - Cover entry steps with deck for zero-step threshold. TBD.

EXT.4 - Replace entry walk. Match height with EXT.3 for zero-step. TBD.

EXT.5 - Path and steps from driveway to doors. TBD

EXT.7 - Carport structure. Needs design.

EXT.8 - New path to east side gate, maybe gravel? New landscape? Needs design.

EXT.10 - Fence/landscaping to hide breezeway door. Needs design.

EXT.11 - Gas meter enclosure. Needs design.

EXT.13 - Basement door. Needs design. $2000-$3000.

EXT.14 - Backyard paths and railings. Cruz has done a lot. Need design for railings (see also EXT.15).

EXT.15 - Consider fencing backyard. 125' should be $2,000 or so. GET BIDS.

To Do

EXT.2 - Chimney. Point up the mortar, cap flues with a stone (unless we still need the heater flue). Maybe $1,000? Install a balloon-style flue blocker from below.

EXT.6 - Repair door and window trim at porch. I should be able to do this and get it done before painting.

EXT.9 - Remove dead tree at driveway. Get bid from Cruz.

EXT.12 - Repair siding and mid-rail: SW corner of BR3; SE corner of BA3; corner at W/D; west of BR1 glass door; west Kitchen. I can do this work.

EXT.16 - Replace deck outside BR1 deck. I can do this, maybe with existing Fiberon.

Eventually

EXT.18 - New roof - looking like $30,000 or more.